"Here's Why the U.S. Army Won't Be Using Glocks" Topic

"A newly released report just shed light on why Glock lost its protest against Sig Sauer, providing fresh insight into the U.S. Army's selection for the Modular Handgun System contract.

According to the report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office, Glock lodged its protest Feb. 24, citing three main reasons: U.S. Army Material Command did not properly evaluate its proposal; the second downselect phase of the testing program was not carried out; and finally, Sig Sauer's XM17 entry was not properly evaluated. Glock also claimed Army evaluators were biased during evaluations.

According to the GAO's 17-page decision, Glock contended "that the [Army Materiel Command] improperly failed to complete reliability testing on Sig Sauer's compact handgun." Moreover, Glock asserted that "the agency's evaluations under the price, license rights, manual safety, and penetration factors and subfactors were flawed." However, while the GAO acknowledged that "the agency's evaluation contained some errors," it judged that "they did not result in prejudice to the protester." And while the GAO found that the Army had incorrectly calculated the cost of the ammunition license and the per-unit price of the Sig XM17 pistol, the office's calculations were only about $1.6 USD million off — far below the $68 USD million that Glock claimed them to be…"
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Amicalement
Armand

The Glock, despite it's sheer unstoppable popularity is an aging design, nearly 40-years old and while it took manufacturers quite a while to catch up with their "me too" polymer pistols, a new generation of guns with enhanced features are appearing on the market while Glock hasn't really made any significant innovations to their guns. The latest feature being adjustable grips (shooters are still debating if it makes the gun better or worse) and adding a single-stack option to their range.

Their patents are running out and while the Glock is the Toyota of handguns, cheap, reliable and quite effective, you find that Glocks aren't the "obvious choice" they were one or two decades ago any more.

Which pistol do you like?….

Just curious….

Amicalement
Armand

My husband bought me a Glock19 last year for my carry.

Very ice pistol, and I like it better them my S&W40.

For cc I and SWMBO carry Ruger 380 LCP's. Light weight, good accuracy, easy for her smaller hands to grip, and easily concealable. And very reliable with over 400+ rounds without a jam.

Dave

I use a Colt 1911 Mark IV series 80 officers model in .45 ACP loaded with Black Talons. Works just fine.

I carried a Glock for over 17 years and never had a problem with it. Saved my butt on one occasion. Still carry one as my CHL. There's no telling how many thousands of rounds went through them. DOD procurement is as much politics as anything else. They're also addicted to "new and improved" whether its better or not.

@Patrick R: I don't think the age of the design is that big a factor, considering the enduring popularity of the M1911.

Personally, my Glock .40 is my favorite pistol and is light-years ahead of the Beretta M9 I had to carry in the Army. CorroPredo hit the nail on the head – procurement is as much about politics as anything else.

CZ-75 SP01 9mm

S&W 686 Plus in 357 Magnum

Rock Island Ultra FC HC – 10mm

Glock 32 in .357 Sig

H&K P7 M13

Thanks!.

I have two Taurus… 45 and 9mm…

Also a H&K USP Compact

Amicalement
Armand

Will not carry a weapon without a Manuel safety or at least a long pull or squeeze.

Regards
Russ Dunaway

I still can't find a flaw in the principle behind the new M17.

Could be that some problem crops up in the future, but I've seen the Sig Sauer 320 go through torture tests and it came out fine. Most shooters seem to like it a lot.

The 1911 is still a fine gun, but the M9 was a more capable design at that time (they both have their flaws), just as the Glock made guns like the CZ, M92, Steyr GB, Browning HP and many others full frame metal guns obsolete.

The Sig Sauer 320/M17 gives you the options of a Glock 17, 19, 26, 22, 23, 27, 31, 32, 33, 21 and 30 all in a single frame. You keep the trigger mechanism, pick a frame and barrel and off you go shooting 9mm, .45, .357 Sig and .40.

Is it a perfect gun ? I don't think there is such a thing. But if this allows people with different size hands find a gun that feels right and can easily exchange parts without having to visit a gunsmith, again I don't see a problem there.

Even extreme wear and tear seems a problem of the past, if your frame break, just get another, trigger mechanism fails, but the rest of the gun is fine ? Simply swap it out for another.

Old Glory, that's why they invented the high capacity.357 magnum revolver. However, my opinion is that a carry gun should ideally go from holster to bang in the shortest possible time with as few steps in between. The Glock fits that description (as long as you carry it cocked and loaded)

The lack of a safety and an easy trigger should not be a problem with people who have properly trained their draw technique, use a suitable holster and don't have to worry about extra random elements that could cause an accidental or negligent discharge.

If you do have factors like inquisitive kids, your carry method could cause an accident, wild pets, an itchy trigger finger or poor trigger discipline, do consider adding an extra level of safety.

It drives me nuts to hear about moms who bought (or were sold) a Glock, carry it in their purse only for a kid to get at and cause a tragedy.

My fifth (and sixth) rule of gun safety is "Never assume your safety is 100% foolproof, the ultimate safety is in your head."

"Go from holster to bang in the shortest possible time"
Who are you, Wild Bill Hickock waiting for a very improbable moment unless you are law enforcement – and even then I question this?? Recently, We just had a PA state trooper accidentally wound a fellow trooper in the barracks with his glock because of this very issue.
I own many, many types of weapons and I do carry and I still trust my old 1971 S/W 38 police special when I do.
Accidents are called accidents because something accidentally out of the norm happens accidentally -- to make the assumption it will not, or does not happen can prove fatal -- in fact that assumption is the beginning of the accident??

Regards
Russ Dunaway

I am with Russ. I'm a lifelong quail hunter, target shooter, and did my bit with the Uncle Sam.
We trained how we fight and fight how we train. Im my case, the split second to toggle a safety on the rise does not slow down target identification, acquisition, double trigger squeeze and re-safing the weapon as it drops back to a patrol position. I served with a retired SAS RSM in Iraq, he said "It's not the gun man, it's knowing how to use it that matters". He carried the M9 and Sig 556, but preferred the M4.

I prefer a revolver. I don't have to worry about it jamming and it's easy to tell if its loaded. My favorite is my Smith and Wesson 357, which I often load with 38 rounds. I know a revolver may not be the best combat weapon, but it is great for self defense against one or two attackers. If I have to face more than that, then they are probably going to get me anyway. After all, I am a professor, not Dirty Harry. But then again, didn't Dirty Harry usually use a revolver?

When I say "from holster to bang" I am talking about a moment of crisis, where need to make critical decisions and anything that could possibly interfere in the process or could go wrong should be taken into account.

If you carry a gun unloaded and with the safety off, you increase safety at the expense of a possible operator error in times of extreme stress.

Similarly a gun that can go off the moment you look too long at the trigger could spell disaster if you end up fumbling for your gun in a panic.

I know it's been rammed into some people's heads that gun safety goes before everything else, but when a situation occurs where the difference between life and death goes wrong because of a short-stroke when racking the slide or forgetting to throw the safety because you were caught completely unaware and unprepared …

A revolver comes closest to what I think is the right kind of mix between safety and ease of operation, but you trade this off for capacity.

A Glock or similar guns can be put into action in a flash, but a simple fumble of the trigger finger can have dire consequences and there is a sad long list of people who died because it is so easy to make it go off.

I know of people who failed to get the first shot with a 1911 because in the commotion they pulled their gun in an awkward manner and failed to properly squeeze the grip safety.

So it's all a kind of balancing act you can't really win, you have to make compromises to make it work.

Everyday carry: Glock 26 or 19 (depending on the weather).

Everyday concealed carry: Glock 30
Winter time carry: XD full frame 45 or 9mm

Russ, I like the Ruger 9mm LC9S. It only has a (standard) 7 round mag or a 9 round extended one, but it does have a discrete safety (which I also insist on). It is small, and so far, seems very reliable. It's thin, and I like that.

I have carried the M1911, the S&W 686 .357, and the Glock 22.

My favorite was the M1911. With reasonable training taking the firearm off safe is not an issue. With 7 rounds the vast majority of law enforcement, civilian and even military shootouts are serviced without a reload.

When I carried it on duty, I could draw the 686 from latched in the holster, to fire six rounds, reload, and fire six more rounds, accurately, in under five seconds. It's just training and practice and there are few occasions where 12 rounds in 5 seconds is not enough.

I have carried the Glock 22 .40 caliber for over 15 years. It's the issue gun for the agency I work for. It's a good gun. Safety is not an issue, there is a trigger safety, a drop safety and firing pin safety. It's no more dangerous than a revolver. Glock also has several models of trigger so the trigger pull can be heavy or light as you prefer.

I like the new inserts for smaller hands. I still don't like the either the magazine release or the slide release, I think they are too small.

The most important safety is the operator and the trigger finger. Index the trigger finger alongside the frame and the gun does not go off. Very simple.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Really nice!….

Amicalement
Armand

I carry a Glock every day. It goes bang every time you pull the trigger;it doesn't need any innovations.

Me 1911, both of my adult sons also. My wife Carries either the Ruger LCP or the Taurus P111.

I was issued the M1911 .45 then the M9 when it replaced the .45. I liked the knock down power of the .45. But favored the M9 as it held more rounds in the magazine.

I have a Colt .45, Commander LW for a personal defense weapon. I load it up Speer hollow points. But have not had the need to carry it for years. But along with my AR-15 they are right next to my bed … just in case …