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"Leipzig: Just won't Leave Me Alone" Topic


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3,371 hits since 29 Jun 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Jun 2017 5:21 p.m. PST

So I'm putting my Leipzig project on the front burner for the summer. I've gotten burned out on 1:1 skirmish games for a while. I need to go do a big battle with epic scope. I'll update this thread as I make progress. Feel free to follow along.

Quick notes: Rules: Grande Armee. Figures: Baccus 6mm. Ground Scale 1cm = 100 yards. Basing: 30x30mm base = 1 brigade.

I've purchased a few painted collections when the bug has bitten me in the past, so I need to do a proper sort and inventory. I've pretty much finished the sort of the based figs, and now we're on to the painted but that needs sorting and basing. And I've ordered the few packs I need to finish off my Austrian Army.

Currently on the painting table:

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rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP30 Jun 2017 5:36 p.m. PST

Thanks for posting. I will be watching.

wrgmr130 Jun 2017 6:38 p.m. PST

Yup, my eyes are on this one too! You go EC!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Jul 2017 6:36 a.m. PST

Time to start thinking about the map. My table is 6x9. Leaving a few inches at either end for dice, that gives me an area 10 miles by 13. Most of the maps of the battle are pretty compact, so I want to add extra space so players have a little more choice of deployment and attack directions. But here is a map that is close, illustrating 9x7 miles. I just need to find maps to fill in the edges.

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Keep in mind that at this scale, 1 mile = 7". One reason I went with this scale is so I don't have to do any math. I can play the rules exactly as written, simply substituting centimeters for inches, and not having to have special 2/3 scale rulers, or to do any math.

HappyHussar01 Jul 2017 10:31 p.m. PST

Nice map. I wish you the best with your efforts! 6x9 feet .. how do you get to the middle of the battlefield. Kind of a long reach to Leipzig town.

I worked on a computer game about the Fall campaign of 1813 and Leipzig was one of the biggest challenges of my game design career. I have always wondered why it gets pushed aside so much for other battles when it was the titanic event of the era.

I also worked on an 1814 game. One of my biggest what-if scenarios is to say that Napoleon did not engage the Allies after the 14th and instead fell back on France with most of his army (less the odd encounter here and there like Hanau). Imagine how much more time he would have bought if he had had a larger army in 1814.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2017 12:15 p.m. PST

A project after my own heart. I grow tired of the puny skirmish games. I want a large historical battle with lots of 15mm battalions. For I have also grown tired of the brigade.

I want a host of players with a cast of thousands!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jul 2017 5:14 a.m. PST

@HappyHussar: You can reach the middle okay but I have a number of small step stools just in case!

HappyHussar03 Jul 2017 6:18 a.m. PST

I was thinking you were using "push rods" to move the troops! In some ways for units in the middle of the map you could put them on a cardboard sleeve with lips to keep the bases together. Then just push the cardboard sleeves around the middle the map with push rods …

I am almost 6' tall but have problems reaching the middle of a 6' wide table … I always preferred the defense as my opponent would have to either stretch or come over to my side of the board to push his troops around! <ROFL>

AussieAndy Supporting Member of TMP03 Jul 2017 9:47 a.m. PST

I ticked gaming Leipzig off my bucket list several years ago. We did it in 6mm using Grande Armee at 4/5ths scale (ie a base is 60mm). We replaced the command and control system in GA with a simple order system (which saved a lot of time). I suggest that, at the scale that you are doing it, you have a good think about the terrain features which you will represent.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Jul 2017 6:55 a.m. PST

I found just what I needed map-wise! It is a set of maps for an 1813 Campaign computer game. I want to extend my battlefield slightly to allow for more options than just the historical set up/approaches. Take a look here:

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The site has loads of other useful maps you can down load for free as well.

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2017 3:30 a.m. PST

Thanks for the link! That looks interesting! My table is 6' X 9', I am 5'6" and I can reach to the center most of the time, but I am not gaming.
I had never thought of utilizing table size as part of my tactics. I just am too closed minded.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP05 Jul 2017 9:39 a.m. PST

Okay here is the original map centered in my eventual total space.

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Next up is to fill in all the details of roads, hills, rivers, towns, etc.

HappyHussar06 Jul 2017 8:37 a.m. PST

@ExtraCrispy – that was the first of three computer games I helped design. The large Halle-Leipzig map was meant for larger operational level type battles. Impossible for miniatures I would think unless you use 6mm I guess.

Check out the "East Brie Plateau" map out of the Campaign 1814 game. Includes all of the battlefields for the battles of Champaubert, Montmirail, Chateau-Thierry and Fere-Champenoise – Napoleon beating the Army of Silesia within a period of 5 days.

Prince of Essling Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2017 11:33 a.m. PST

If you want a bit more detail see:
Lieberwolkitz: link
Mockern: link
Wachau: link
Lindenau & Connewitz: link
Leipzig overview: link
Leipzig: link

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Jul 2017 3:26 p.m. PST

@Happy Hussar:

I'm not using all of it. But it has all the detail beyond the edges of what most battle maps show. I'm extending the play area by a few miles in each direction so the Allies have some flexibility in their approaches, so we get a new take on the battle.

@Prince:

Those are great, thansk very much for the links!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Jul 2017 3:27 p.m. PST

I have French, Russians and Austrians. Pretty much starting from zero for Prussians. So here is a test strip of Prussian Uhlans:

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Jul 2017 9:07 a.m. PST

More progress: Clockwise from lower left we have:

  • Assorted generals and leftover cav to use on command stands
  • Russian Light inf
  • French artillery crews
  • French guns
  • Assorted stands in various stages of re-basing
  • Prussian Uhlans starting to get painted
  • Completed skirmishers for another rules system
  • And finally, in the middle, some 15mm Marines of the Guard just as a break from all teh tiny 6mm goodness.

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    The next major decision: what scale buildings to use for all the villages? I need to test 6mm, 3mm, 2mm and 1/1200. If I use 6mm each cillage is one building *maybe* two. In 3mm I can fit 3 or 4 on the base, but in 1/1200 I can get an actual villages. (The game uses 40x40mm bases for villages with larger towns being multiple bases).

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:15 a.m. PST

This morning I started working on my unit labels. These will be folded paper affixed to the base bottoms with a bit of Scotch tape. Although I like to keep markers to a minimum in my games, given the scope of this game, unit labels are essential. This is a test of concept shot.

View from the rear. Each command has a unique color/shape ID badge (in this case a yellow star), which each army has a unique overall color background (pale gray here).

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View from the front. I'll want to get rid of that white by printing a green color there. And obviously I'd trim up the paper on each stand so it doesn't show.

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Artillery is normally on a 1.5 x 3 base, but as there are so many batteries I'm doubling them up on to 3x3 bases. In a few case I'll move a battery from one command to another. The overall number of guns will be correct from the scenario, but the distribution on the front may vary slightly.

Barcephus Inactive Member21 Jul 2017 7:49 a.m. PST

Waiting for my order from Baccus is the worse

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 8:23 a.m. PST

A little progress on my Leipzig project.

It now looks like I have roped in a fellow gamer to do the Prussians, so I can concentrate on finishing my Austrians. So once I finsih up painting these Prussian Uhlans, I'll get started on the unpainted Austrians I got from Peter at Baccus6mm last week.

Meanwhile here is a batch of painted Austrians that just need re-basing.

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And here are the Uhlans – should be finished today, then off to get proper basing.

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

Austrians!

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Markconz26 Jul 2017 8:29 p.m. PST

Good job! Watching this thread too thanks :)

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 6:44 a.m. PST

After a week away in the deep woods of northern Wisconsin, with 104 of my wife's closest relatives, I'm back home. I have no plans for the weekend so I'm finishing off these lads. The Austrians were based and inked last night and will get a dry brush and flock today.

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The Prussian Uhlans are done. I just need to snip them and base them. I have enough for 3 units of 10 figures each. leftover figures will become fodder for command stands, markers, etc. (A pack of Baccus cavalry includes 5 units of 9, with 2 of those being command).

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Once these are all properly finished, I will do some close ups of the individual units.

Note that many of these are second hand from E-bay, TMP etc. So the basing style will be a little all over the place….

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:07 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:08 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:08 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:08 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:09 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:09 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:09 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:10 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:10 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:10 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:11 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:11 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 2:11 p.m. PST

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 4:19 p.m. PST

Up next: 24 more Austrian batteries.

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Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 6:30 p.m. PST

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Gonsalvo02 Aug 2017 4:58 p.m. PST

I am no great fan of 6mm figures in general, but I have to say that yours are looking super. We easily have enough 28mm figures to do Leipzig at 1: 100 without having to paint muyh of anything. Of course we'd need an enormous site and a heck of a lot of table space! :-)

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Aug 2017 7:47 p.m. PST

This is definitely a "bucket list" game. I normally prefer 15mm for Napoleonics. But this gives me a big battlefield (about 10 x 13 miles) to conquer!

Barcephus Inactive Member03 Aug 2017 7:17 a.m. PST

as long as we get some use out of the armies

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Aug 2017 10:39 a.m. PST

Oh, we will! Other huge battles becon next. Dresden, Wagram, muahahahahaha!!!

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Aug 2017 1:46 p.m. PST

Here is the Austrian army to date. 57 Brigades of infantry, 17 brigades of cavalry, 3 generals and 15 batteries. Lots more batteries and generals needed! Ineed a total of 9 Generals, 29 infantry (loads left over but Wagram looms), 7 Cavalry and 30 batteries (I have 24 on the painting table now).

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Royal Marine06 Aug 2017 4:04 a.m. PST

This is a very beautiful looking project, well done so far … more to follow I hope.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Aug 2017 7:14 a.m. PST

Loads more to follow. I have roped in another sucker…er, gamer to do the Prussians.

I still have the French and Russians to re-base, and then fill in the gaps on any missing units.

Of course I need to build Swedes and Poles pretty much from scratch.

Just loads and loads to do.

Then there's the terrain….just started thinking about how to do towns. 6mm? 3mm? 1/1200?

Barcephus Inactive Member06 Aug 2017 8:25 a.m. PST
Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Aug 2017 4:34 p.m. PST

My comrade in arms Barcephus is handling the Prussians:

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Markconz08 Aug 2017 10:27 p.m. PST

Looking good!

Elenderil09 Aug 2017 4:51 a.m. PST

Peter Guilder used to Leipzig as a big battle weekend event. I recall reading an article in one of the wargame mags back in the day about it. His solution to the reach issue was to have a cut out where Leipzig itself was so the French players could stand in the space at the centre of the table.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Aug 2017 8:13 p.m. PST

Okay, just an idea I'm tinkering with for my Leipzig game.

Since I have plenty of space for maneuver on my table, I thought I might try this: let the French deploy, and have the allies come on the board via roads. These are "column" markers. Each unit is to markers long on good roads, three markers long on secondary roads. While the French deploy, the Allies make their columns and assign them to roads.

This gives the Allies a chance of a new deployment / strategy but also gives them a historically accurate traffic problem. AND it will require them to think carefully about the order of their units in the columns.

The markers add some fog of war (I'm debating having different markers for foot, horse and guns).

For now just painting them in national colors does the job, since they get pulled as units deploy. I'm thinking of making it a set number of inches per marker to "deploy." So infantry moves 6" + d6 cross country. Deploying will take 4" per marker maybe.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

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