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"A question about panzer divisions at Kursk." Topic


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693 hits since 26 Jun 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Field Marshal27 Jun 2017 5:27 p.m. PST

By Kursk it would seem the Panzer IV is the main tank of the panzer divisions but would there still be a proportion of PzIIIs? I know the Panther was there in limited numbers but i am looking the 2nd SS Korps mainly.

Jason

Bravo Two Zero27 Jun 2017 5:50 p.m. PST

are you looking overall or could it be broke down by Armee Groupe. Your focus on Sud or Centre?

I ask as this is spread through several books and I would like to help but armee groupe narrows down to a few sources for each.

JH

Bravo Two Zero27 Jun 2017 6:00 p.m. PST

For Example Das Reich of II SS Panzer corps under 4th Panzer Armee in Groupe Sud had them. There are more. That is off the top of my head.

JH

Field Marshal27 Jun 2017 6:42 p.m. PST

Its Hoth's force I am most inetersted in and especially the 2nd SS Korps

Martin Rapier27 Jun 2017 10:11 p.m. PST

The bulk of the medium tanks in 2nd SS PzKps were Pz III (over 60 in both 2nd and 3rd SS VS 30 to 40 IV). Only 1st SS had mostly IV.

Das Reich also had a battalion of captured T34s.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2017 2:10 a.m. PST

And no Panthers in 2nd SS Panzer Korps, despite Soviet claims. Panthers were attached to GrossDeutschland PZG Division.

Fred Cartwright28 Jun 2017 3:59 a.m. PST

And Tigers of course. Grossdeutchland and the SS divisions had organic Tiger units and there were some Heer Tiger battalions as well.

Bravo Two Zero28 Jun 2017 5:32 a.m. PST

503rd heavy backed up DasReich. I recall it had full compliment of tigers. The organization perhaps dropped the panzer 3s in this formation. Previously had them.

The armed groups reserve had 5th SS Wiking. This was a panzer grenadier division on at the time but the panzer abtielung may have had panzer 3s . Mostly Panzer IVs

JH

LtJBSz Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2017 6:19 a.m. PST

On Niehorster's site, and credited to Jentz's "Panzertruppen":

LAH 4 Pz II, 3 PZ III(short), 10 PZ III(long)
67 PZ IV(long) 13 Tiger

Das Reich 1 PZ II 62 PZ III(long) 33 PZ IV(long) 14 Tiger
25 T-34

TotenKopf 63 PZ III(long) 8 PZ IV(short) 44 PZ IV(long)
15 Tiger

Martin Rapier28 Jun 2017 6:43 a.m. PST

"503rd heavy backed up DasReich. I recall it had full compliment of tigers. The organization perhaps dropped the panzer 3s in this formation. Previously had them."

The 503rd was assigned to Armee Abteiling Kempf, and intially only had two companies, which were split between two of Kempfs panzer divisions.

GD also had an integral Tiger company.

As noted above, GD was also the only unit with Panthers (a whopping 200 of them, the greatest number of Panthers ever deployed by a single unit). The majority were lost to mines and breakdowns very quickly though.

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