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"Battle of the Garigliano River 29 December 1503" Topic

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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP20 Jun 2017 9:48 p.m. PST

"Following the Battle of Cerignola in April the French fell back on their base at Gaeta. The Spanish, led by Gonsalvo de Corboba, followed up and laid siege but to little avail. When French reinforcements arrived Gonsalvo fell back on the river Garigliano where he took up a defensive position…"





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Puster Supporting Member of TMP21 Jun 2017 10:23 p.m. PST

Fantastic units, terrain and scenario. Count me impressed and envious :-)

I am not sure on mounted arquebus, though. The only contemporaries that I know of that really used shot from horse where berber – the first depictions I know are from the Tunis expedition of Charles, and there are plenty of reports from the Maroccon war (no idea how they managed to ride and reload, as the usual saying is that a reloading an arquebus takes three hands anyway). There certainly were arquebus units that used mounts to move – dragoon style. Many claim that Giovanni di Medici pioneered that, but chances are that it was a typical development of richer soldiers having a mount anyway, and just being lumped together for rapid deployment. If you have better information on the use of arquebus from horse I would love to read about that.

That said – I now feel compelled to push on towards my Pavia project…

olicana22 Jun 2017 2:33 a.m. PST

Thanks, Puster.

I tend to agree on the historical front. Crossbows with a lever, probably yes, but as for reloading an arquebus whilst mounted I don't know: I guess you would have to ask ECW / TYW reenactors to know what's possible.

However, if you treat them as fellows with guns and a horse nearby, don't want to duplicate figures, and are happy for mounting / dismounting to be 'automatic' as circumstance dictates, they kinda work depicted as mounted arquebus. Of all of the periods I wargame, this period is one I'm happy to 'paper, scissors, stone' the units as counters with the unit diversity is so great that I'm happy to fudge here and there.

In ECW or TYW type pike and shot games the dragoon is a welcome relief to the similarity of the other cavalry / foot units. Consequently I'd always do them as dismounted and mounted and play rules that encompass that kind of thing. In the Italian Wars, somehow I don't feel the need.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 11:04 a.m. PST

Great job my friend!.



Puster Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2017 2:58 a.m. PST

I would probably field them as infantry with some stands of nearby horses, then, as they probably never fought actually mounted (not least because their horses were not trained for such strain).

I still wonder how the horsemen at Tunis and in Marocco managed to reload – there ar reports of Caracole style actions, so they must have managed.

olicana23 Jun 2017 4:26 a.m. PST

I absolutely agree about fighting from horseback as 'cavalry'. In Pike and Shotte they have an astonishing melee value of 6, I guess to encourage people to buy them, I've down rated them to 4 and may reduce that further to 3. There advantage should only be one of mobility.

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