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"This week I have mostly been dyeing towels... for Arnhem! " Topic

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PiersBrand20 Jun 2017 3:20 p.m. PST

Well… this week I built the terrain boards from scratch for our demo game in a week and a bit at Bovington.

This is the full mock up, minus the proper Dutch buildings and a few more trees…

Legion 420 Jun 2017 3:35 p.m. PST

Very nice !

zoneofcontrol20 Jun 2017 3:39 p.m. PST

OK, quit teasing. "Get 'er dun" and get back here with pics, lots of them. Looks really good. Can't wait to see more.

foxweasel20 Jun 2017 3:55 p.m. PST

Can't wait to see the real thing, looking good.

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP20 Jun 2017 6:14 p.m. PST

Those images are to dye for. thumbs up

wrgmr120 Jun 2017 6:52 p.m. PST

Bashy, I almost dyed laughing!
Piers, as always you impress with your figures and terrain. Love your work!

uglyfatbloke21 Jun 2017 3:27 a.m. PST

Oooohhh… usual.

RitterKrieg Inactive Member21 Jun 2017 12:14 p.m. PST

WOWSER! Looks great!


Choctaw21 Jun 2017 1:01 p.m. PST

Hmmm, my wife is out of town tonight. Surely she won't miss a few towels…

uglyfatbloke21 Jun 2017 1:31 p.m. PST

My wife wants me to dye some towels.

PiersBrand21 Jun 2017 5:40 p.m. PST

Cheers chaps!

sausagesca22 Jun 2017 2:19 p.m. PST

Love it. I still use the Gilder/Rumford approach to texturing terrain boards (paint, sawdust…) and I like the look, but I have long been impressed by the terrain of Andrews and one of the Perrys using towels. Love the look of your now too. In addition to the dying, are you spraying other colours on? I assume that you are using flocking to soften the transition to other surfaces (roads etc).

uglyfatbloke24 Jun 2017 7:38 a.m. PST

Piers, if you're looking for site-specific Arnhem buildings in 20mm drop me a line; I know a chap who may be able to help.

andysyk21 Jul 2017 8:48 a.m. PST

Ive got my old issue towels in green somewhere!

Andy ONeill21 Jul 2017 9:17 a.m. PST

I use cheap green carpet.
I'm trying to get my head round towels.
Are they particularly short pile (if that's the right term)

archiduque22 Jul 2017 3:02 a.m. PST


Marc at work28 Jul 2017 7:50 a.m. PST

Just realised Piers that the vehicles aren't based. Is this a new trend? I am just getting warmed up to basing mine based on your previous work


laretenue28 Jul 2017 10:03 a.m. PST

And (shamelessl riding on this thread) tell us, Big Piers, who makes the 6pdr barrels used by your Brit Airborne?

Khaki0805 Aug 2017 1:51 p.m. PST

The key question here, is will it actually be a game? Piers and his chums have previous form (Salute) for just setting up a load of pretty figures and then standing there looking smug and selling books. If someone ain't moving troops and throwing dice it ain't a wargame, its just a sh*t diorama.

Just sayin…

Marc at work06 Aug 2017 4:35 a.m. PST

Ooh. Burn!

I think the effort Piers and the gang put into their table maybe they deserve a chance to stand around and answer questions on how they did it, how the rules work etc. YMMV

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Aug 2017 6:28 a.m. PST

Well odd attitude, specially when considering the 'buy fest' that is Salute which has for many many years been a 'show' show rather than a playing one. Eye candy has its place if its good candy so rather than being a 'sh*t' diorama I'd have said it was a superb example of what can be done with a bit of effort and skill and very inspirational. Everything about that table says its a gaming layout that also happens to be lovely to look at.
And 'just sayin' added to imploite rudeness deosn't make it any less an example of discourteousness.

Khaki0806 Aug 2017 2:30 p.m. PST

If you want to go to a model show, go to one. There are plenty around. (I go to a few myself). I have also put on several games at Salute and other shows. We hope that what we did was visually spectacular, but crucially it was also a GAME, we played it. In one case through to a conclusion twice with a break for lunch.

If its a figure display, so be it (nice models) but don't call it a "Demo Game" if you're not planning to play it.

This is even more significant if you are plugging a set of rules. Surely the best way of showing off a set of rules is to have them working on the table for people to see. Otherwise they just have to take your word for it.

The diorama remark is intended in a very specific way, if you set out to make a static model of a military scene you would not make all the modelling compromises that wargamers make, to base the figures, make the buildings accessible etc. The only reason to do that is to play a GAME with them.

Also there is a logical fallacy in the premise that we should buy his rules 'cos his figures are pretty. The former does not follow from the latter. Some of the finest (and most innovative) WW2 rules out there are small softback books without loads of kit-pics.

deephorse06 Aug 2017 2:38 p.m. PST

There, you see, you can make a post without being unnecessarily offensive.

Khaki0806 Aug 2017 2:43 p.m. PST

Or unnecessarily patronising?

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Aug 2017 3:08 p.m. PST

Display games connected to a particular company as a way of producing sales is common these days. I did a number of games ( as part of a group) for Salute in years gone by ( 2 best Scenery and one best Participation game prizes). As I remember games have won prizes when they have been produced by a proffesional model landscape concern rather than by the efforts of gamers. Times change, ways of doing things change, Salute is a commercial exercise not a gaming convention, good or bad depends on your tastes. Personally I'd agree that the flashy rule books following the pattern of GW dont mean the rules or games are better in many cases a heck of a lot em are so dumbed down as to be seriously tedious.
Particularly odd post considering that the game in question was staged at Bovy which is a real 2 day games show and definately not a 'buying fest' ( as my sales figure would prove over the years).
But thank you for the moderation of tone most welcome.

Marc at work06 Aug 2017 11:20 p.m. PST

+1 deephorse

Marc at work06 Aug 2017 11:20 p.m. PST

+2 Leon. But that is 'cos he is making some simply stunning figures

PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 1:20 a.m. PST

Actually it was played three times Khaki08, and the pics of those games are also on this page if you wish to see them… but I suspect you dont.

That was at Bovington by the way, not Salute.

Its also been played three after too. I use it at home too.

Ive only done two games at Salute that were not played. Both had intended to be played but we'd rather talk to the people who come see us at the show, rather than ignore them to play a game. We are very lucky to have an almost constsnt flow of customers to chat with and talk to at Salute and it remains a time to talk to a lot of people in the hobby rather than a venue for gaming.

But why show then?

Why not make a massive diorama?

Well even if not played, I think its worth showing the demo/display game as the miniatures, terrain and techniques that anyone in the hobby can replicate and use for themselves… after all it is a gaming hobby, not a modelling one. We spend a good deal of time chatting with people over the method used to set up the demo/display. I'd rather spend the day talking to gamers at Salute than playing a game there to be honest. I'd like to hope it achieves more. Ive never really seen it as a venue idesl for playing games anyway, but if we can show terrain and models that anyone can produce, and inspire or help some to do so, then my goal is different to yours.

As for comments like this, sadly its to be expected these days. Its a shame the hobby doesnt have such a community spirit anymore. Really makes you wonder why you bother. If our rulebooks are not too your liking Khaki08 then you have the chance to buy your 'innovative softbacks, full of kit'. Its a personal hobby, full of choice and variety. Long may it remain so. Its just a shame we cant be more accepting of that variety and how others wish to peruse their personal hobby.

If you are at Salute next year Khaki08, or Bovington, please come and say hello. I'd be more than happy to give you a tour of out demo/display/diorama or if at Bovvy, run you through a game.

PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 2:56 a.m. PST

Oh… and I'm currently adding two more tiles (with more towels) to add a little village section to one end. :)

VolleyFire Andy07 Aug 2017 3:42 a.m. PST

This is most certainly a playable board, I've played on it twice! A board can look nice, and still be used for gaming, after all, this is a visual hobby and a beautiful set up can make a good game great.

Khaki0807 Aug 2017 4:06 a.m. PST


Thank you for answering my question (and it was a question, if phrased perhaps a little too flippantly for this audience). I will check out the pictures. However you do confirm the truth of my remarks.

I'm pleased to hear you were playing. I completely agree that it is indeed a 'gaming' hobby. I saw your Overlord display at Salute a few years back and was disappointed that you weren't.

PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 4:37 a.m. PST

But we did play the Overlord Omaha Beach game at Salute 2013 Khaki08. So perhaps you didn't visit the game when we were playing.

We played it once during the afternoon.

Indeed, here is a pic during that playthrough…


Note book, dice and tape measure on the terrain! Was a good fun too. :)

Khaki0807 Aug 2017 8:30 a.m. PST

If you say so. I was there all day and never saw a figure move or a dice roll. Maybe I missed it.

If not that one, which two didn't you play?

By John 5407 Aug 2017 9:44 a.m. PST

I remember that D-Day gamw Piers, it looked great, the terrain, and figures were amazing, as your stuff always is, but I was there all day, and didn't see it played at all. Big deal, it's not a crime, but I really cant see the point? the best 'not played demo game' ive seen, are nowhere near up to diorama standards. As said, if your plugging a set of rules, play the bloody thing, let people see how it works. If you are just there to sell, not game, stump up the cash for a trader stand.
I have put on Demo games at Salute, all 1/32 scale, Sword Beach, Trebbia, Oosterbeek, and the 70ft Market Garden games. All were very large, with lotsa figures, (800+ with 200+ vehicles for MG) and, importantly, a lot of players, usually 10-16, depending on the size of game. ALL were played, throughout the day, Trebbia twice, and MG started 5 minutes before the doors opened, and finished 10 mins before the doors closed, with Allied tanks on Nijmegan bridge, as Frost was finally overwhelmed. Now, in ALL these games, we gamed, and also chatted to the public all day, usually with 4/5 spare players who gamed, then took on public duties, then had a look round the show, eat, then rotated back again, I studied rocket Science, this wasn't it.
this nonsense about, 'I'd rather interact with the public than game', and 'Salute isn't a good venue for gaming' is just that, nonsense. Apologies, but 'games that aren't' is a pet hate of mine, why bother? Also Piers, comments bashing 'community spirit' 'sadly to be expected', and digs at Khaki08, were pretty desperate, and unwarranted.


PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 12:17 p.m. PST

I guess I must have dreamed that the five of us played it that day then.

I mean, if you were there all day and didn't see it being played, that must mean you're right and I'm wrong then.

Best wishes gents. :)

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Aug 2017 1:16 p.m. PST

Well I have a problem with scale perspective of 54 mm miniatures in a game but I keep it to myself. The point John 54 was not what Khaki08 said it was the way it was put. It wasnt ' too flippantly' it was just rude, simply impolite.
You can make perfectly reasonable points with courtesy and humour, being abrasive and aggresive just looks dumb. Yes I know dumb is all the rage these days but just because something is popular deosnt make it something worth having or doing.
Rarely come on here these days and now I have been reminded why.

Marc at work07 Aug 2017 2:56 p.m. PST

Sorry John. I like your 54mm stuff but your comments about Piers seem out of order and unnecessary


When all I want to see and know are the techniques Piers uses – towels, rubble and what have you.


Khaki0807 Aug 2017 3:34 p.m. PST

The flap of sandals in the cloister…
Then the rumours start at Prime, "what? surely not?"
By Matins the word is out,
"Yes, its true…"
"It cant be, its Heresy"
"I know, but I saw it happen. Someone criticised Piers Brand"
"Does the Dean Know?"
"Call the Bishop!"
Gather the faggots brethren, there'll be a burning a'fore the week is out"

Suck down that cool-aid folks I'm sure it tastes great.

Bye for now!

PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 5:18 p.m. PST

I feel almost like Games Workshop. :)

VolleyFire Andy07 Aug 2017 5:33 p.m. PST

Wealthy and hugely popular?

PiersBrand07 Aug 2017 5:36 p.m. PST

If only…

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Aug 2017 2:04 a.m. PST

This place has got some very strange people on it, note to oneself 'dont engage'. Just happy to think that those two are never going to be customers of mine :)

Marc at work08 Aug 2017 2:14 a.m. PST

Well Leon, if that's the case then they will miss out on some excellent WW2 sculpts

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