"Napoleonic French Grand Battery." Topic

Warlord Games added new sets to their Black Powder range

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Amicalement
Armand

The officer in charge needs to revisit the regulations about gunner positioning before he gets put on a charge.

A lot of ear covering going on, ie mortar crewing stances.

Not my scale but otherwise very nice.

Happy modelling,

Chris

Just not happy with those bearskin heads. Look like covered cylinders.

GdeP

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

The officer in charge needs to revisit the regulations about gunner positioning before he gets put on a charge.

Yeah. The guy with the rammer is in serious trouble and s is the guy kneeling behind him. The guy with the linstock is courting a broken arm.

Not a fan of the bearskins, nor of photoshopping a set to make it look like lots. Too repetitive – reminds me when the evil empire used to do that with LotR elephants in the big battle reports

Did the guard foot artillery use 6lbrs?

And who is the mounted officer with shako? Why not a bearskin?

And did the senior officer have white lapels – whenever I have seen guard artillery they are all blue with somber facings? No white piping etc

Confused

I admit – I hate the pose where the gunners cover the ears, seemingly 20th century style and yes, show me some contemporary pictures where the did it.

Oh you people are so fussy.
Apart from the weird looking bearskin, (I do accept that without the peak is not unreasonable, but does detract too), the wrong positioning of almost every member of the gun crew, their odd posing, the officers that are not even Line foot artillery…………what is there not to like?
They did use 6pdrs to be fair, although at Waterloo 12pdrs were the majority. 5th and 6th Co were attached to Grenadiers and Chasseurs respectively, with 6pdrs and 5.5 howitzers.

In all seriousness, I find myself criticising almost everything they have done recently, with real regret……The Highlanders, The lancers, The Household cavalry etc. There is a lack of design and consultation going into these. It is no harder to roll the cloak over the correct shoulder than the wrong one, produce arms for a human not a gorilla and horses that are horse shaped. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of uniformology would condemn these bearskin shapes. Again………. a few minutes more sculpting would have transformed them.

One of the great Hourtoulle plates of years ago was of the Young Guard gunners manning 4 pounders – may have been for Aspern/Essling battle. I cannot envision the Old Guard firing anything less than an 8 pounder, then going to the 12's. I am no expert, but, "just sayin."

GdeP

There are some pretty well-known plates showing the positions for Napoleonic gun crews. When not actually working at a specific task each man was supposed to stand to attention in position. Kneeling is certainly a late C19th/C20th century thing.

Like the Warlord RHA whose helmets just look all wrong, these bearskins also look very odd.

The mules look nice though! Perhaps they've finally given up trying to make horses that look like horses and realised there's a great market for mules!

So glad it's not just me guys. I don't have an iron in the 28mm fire really, but when i see quality I respect it. And when I see this I just despair. In 1/72 "we" constantly hound the manufacturers to improve the product (there are still a lot of turkeys out there of course). Do the 28mm crowd?

Or is Warlord successful because they can get their products in front of people? Marketing over quality

Sorry if I'm being harsh – normally I try to say nothing if I have nothing nice to say. Guess I'm just feeling grumpy

The RHA helmets…I had forgotten those….how do they manage it…to get something so simple to end up so misshapen?

I wish every new contributor well.

The more the merrier and we can only benefit……..but…

So who is "advising" them as "experts"?

The mules are great.

The mules for the winner!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

I admit – I hate the pose where the gunners cover the ears, seemingly 20th century style and yes, show me some contemporary pictures where the did it.

A little later but this is from the Civil War drill manual.

Cover only one ear – the one nearest the muzzle of the tube. Bend the opposite leg. Face the piece and watch to ensure the gun fires properly. If there is a misfire; then go to the misfire drill.

link

Yes, there are a whole set of farby things about this unit, but the drill is correct.

There are some pretty well-known plates showing the positions for Napoleonic gun crews.

Can anyone provide details, book titles, or links please?

I've been googling, but not having much success. I'm not home at the moment, so I think the books I'm using are an Osprey (Artillery in the Napoleonic Wars, perhaps). The other reference is a 3-volume set by Netrun from Histoire & Collections, Artillery and the Gribeauval System. I really like the H&C 3-volume set.

To magnify these go to;
imageshack.com/a/n0Wl/1

But below are Haythornthwaite, Dawson Dawson and Summerfield and, of course, Adkin. Hope these help. They differ slightly eg one or two using the trail spike to aim. Most agree one man with two spikes.

These are of course French. British/KGL swapped sides for some crew. There are diagrams for them too of course

just found another old one Michael Head's French Nap Artillery;

Which might tell you why folk are so amused about the positioning of the guncrews above, in the "Grand Battery". Their other point is the effect the cannons' recoil will have on individuals who are "unfortunately placed", just behind the wheels. In fairness, this we must all compromise on, to fit enough figures onto a reasonably sized base.

I did like the 138SquadronRAF contribution. The noise indeed comes from the muzzle and, to this day I regularly see military with noise induced deafness greater in the left ear, even though the round explodes in the breech, within inches of the right ear! The noise comes out the end of the barrel to this day.

Thanks deadhead for the pictures and especially for the references. More books to add to my wish list!

Thanks for the link my dear cousin!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Snag is so many books now out of print…..

There are many diagrams for British/KGL gunner positions also. Not sure how Prussian/Russian/Austrian/Netherlands etc lined up.

Might almost be worth a new posting, if folk are interested in finding out.

I always moan about spongeman on the left side, Rolled cloak over wrong shoulder, Regt Colours wrong sided and flank companies insulting the grenadiers, as anywhere but on the right of the line. OK. Nit picking, but as easy to get to it right as wrong

Re muzzle noise.

Many years ago when I was 16 I had a job in the school summer holidays at the local hospital. I started at 4.30pm and finished at 8.30pm. Each ward had a domestic who laid the tables, cleared the plates, washed up then mopped a few floors.

For a 16-year-old wargamer the pay was terrific. On bank holiday weekends I was making £60.00 GBP This when a Hinchliffe cavalryman was 14p and his horse 16p.

I digress.

Ward I59 was male geriatric. Much nicer people than the female gerries. I arrived one evening as a patient -
we'll call him George – was saying goodbye to a visitor.

"That was my daughter, son."
"Oh yes?"
"She's fifty."
(What? Eh? – 4th Cuirassier thinks rapidly)
"Get away. You've never got a daughter that old. You're not old enough."
"How old do I look then, son?"
"About 66."
"I'm 88." Big grin and that was when I learned that 88-year-olds care how old they look.

So of course George had been in the First World War. Sometimes he would not hear what I'd said. "You'll have to come round my other side, son. I'm a bit deaf this side. That was where the gun was."

George had been in the artillery, right through, 1914 to 1918. Apparently you could tell a gunner from an infantryman by looking. One wound his puttees on from the knee down, and the other wound them on from the ankle up. So George said. I've no idea if that's true. But if it is, yes he was in the artillery and yes you did risk going deaf on one side.

So yes. A great summer. £60.00 GBP a week, 19-year-old student nurses and George the Great War gunner.

What a brilliant story. He was horse artillery.

Mounted troops wore puttees reversed to infantry. No idea why.

Mrs F's granddad was quite senior call up…. in time for start of WWII as in Territorial Army. We have a picture of him on the wall, with his medals, in a rig that looks more WWI than II. A crossbelt with leather ammo pouches and upside down puttees.

Do not get me started on 19 year old student nurses. I was a med student in 1971-6….and a Grateful Dead fanatic…but never inhaled

What! You never inhaled the student nurses!!!!

Puttees wound wrong way to stop the motion on the horse bringing them loose from rubbing up and down

Bit like the student nurses then……..last sentence I stress

No, I'll say no more.

Spongeman to the right, loader to the left….. that is safer ground

Liam. I promise I will never show you my Airfix French artillery. The crew are very randomly placed. I beg forgiveness and blame youth – I was about 40 at the time and knew no better

But if I can try to explain. With most wargame artillery, there are only 4. So when putting together a battery, if placed in the same positions on all four bases it would look "boring"…

Some of you may find this interesting. ;-)

Right-click on the images and copy image address. THESE IMAGES ARE VERY LARGE. JUST COPY AND PASTE THE URL OF THE IMAGES. THEN CLICK ON THE IMAGES TO ENLARGE THEM.

A battery of foot artillery of the French Imperial Guard. Photo taken at the Camp of Châlons in 1857.

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A battery of horse artillery of the French Imperial Guard. Photos taken at the Camp of Châlons in 1866.

Click on the images to enlarge them:

i.imgur.com/uiXRElB.png?1

i.imgur.com/AREB9MT.png

Cuiassier – that pic is fantastic, thank you. I doubt very much that there had been any great change in cannon drill in 1866 from the Napoleonic era.

What wonderful pictures. As always this shows the amount of ground needed to deploy one battery never mind a Grand Battery.

The wargamers amongst us seem to generally ignore this as an inconvenient fact when deploying their phalanxes of troops.

Happy modelling.

Chris

When emplacing, the French placed the ammunition coffret on the limber. Ammunition would be taken from the coffret to serve the piece. The coffret would be immediately, if not sooner, replenished from the caisson assigned to the piece.

They then attached the prolonge to the trail of the piece and the limber. When the prolonge was stowed for travelling, it was wrapped neatly around to two hooks at the end of the limber.

All gun crews regardless of country basically had the same crew drill and positions around the piece. Horse artillery units would also have horseholders for the gun crews, from 1-3 gunners would have that duty and they would stay mounted.

The only difference in gun crew positions that I have found is that the British had the gunner who touched off the piece on the opposite side of the piece than everyone else did. I have no idea why.

That is an excellent picture and a great find. Well done.

I doubt very much that there had been any great change in cannon drill in 1866 from the Napoleonic era.

There hasn't been any great change in crew drill through the present time. There are two big changes: (1)that the round is put in the other end of the gun tube, and (2) the piece is fired with a lanyard and not a portfire. The lanyard was introduced after the Napoleonic Wars.

Recommend following the links for the other two pictures. Superb and highly evocative. Marc's point is well made. A line of guns, with every gunner in the same position serving each, could be repetitive. Even "boring"….

and yet..

What do we see when we look at these images? A line of guns, with every etc………..and are we bored or impressed instead?

My pleasure, my friends.

Here I present the first two photos in even larger format (the ones taken in 1857). Right-click on the images and copy image address.

Btw… I don't know for sure if that battery, in the photos taken in 1866, is horse artillery or foot artillery of the French Imperial Guard. The Imperial Guard had two regiments of artillery in 1866.

Wow amazing pics, thanks. I'm actually surprised how close the guns are to each other. I don't feel quite as bad about my batteries now.

Also interesting to see the lines of troops in the background.

"A little later but this is from the Civil War drill manual.

Cover only one ear – the one nearest the muzzle of the tube. Bend the opposite leg. Face the piece and watch to ensure the gun fires properly. If there is a misfire; then go to the misfire drill.

link

Yes, there are a whole set of farby things about this unit, but the drill is correct."

So they copied it from ACW – and no – the drill isn't correct at all for French Napoleonic gunners

One more for you guys.

Artillerymen of the French Imperial Guard at the Camp of Châlons in 1857:

LARGER:

This is worth pursuing to log on to the larger images. Not too likely for 200 years plus after tomorrow but….shows how they did look….50 years on