"Flack jackets and M-16s" Topic

I`ve bought a box of Warlord plastic marines and want to convert them to Viet Nam era troops. I`ve done some research and the main difference is the flack jacket. Did all troops fight in flack jackets? Seen many pictures guys without F/J.
Some thoughts, early war they didn`t wear them. I want to buy some Assault group weapons do I go with M-14s? Or, did the M-16 make its appearance fairly soon after the war started?

The first Marines that landed for combat operations not only wore flak jackets but also flak shorts. The shorts were deemed impractical and dropped later.

Flak jackets were pretty heavy and were not necessarily bullet proof (lots of variables such as range and type weapon). They were good against shrapnel, so they tended to be used in static situations where you were subject to shelling.

Yes, IIRC the "first" Gen of "Flak Vest" were basically useful at stopping some shrapnel, secondary fragmentation, etc.

They really didn't get "bullet proof" per se as ray points. Until after the War in SE Asia. They were heavy and hot. But it could save you life we were told. And hoped so … We were issued some left over from Vietnam in the early '80s, IIRC.

Another option is to convert them into U.S. Army troops. In most cases they did not wear flak jackets.

Flak jackets became general issue during the last part of Korea when things stagnated into trench warfare.

By mid Vietnam they were general issue to infantrymen.
They stop some shrapnel and that was about it.
They are hot and heavy.

Depending on your mission and load you might not be wearing them.

Stagnant on a hilltop in Khe Sanh, absolutely.
Walking about the hill country, depends on what you are already carrying, the unit sops and hopw fast they expect you to move about.

Yes, you probably wouldn't wear a flak vest on a recon patrol in the jungle. We, the 101, ran patrols, etc. in Panama in the early '80s and of course no flak vest were issued

But certainly in a Deliberate Defense, like Khe Sahn, they would be very useful, I'd think.

You see them frequently in photos at places like Khe Sahn. But also in Hue and Saigon. And at Hamburger Hill. In those cases you are not moving very far. Like possibly on a Movement to Contact, etc. And of course what the Bde or Bn Cdr dictates for wearing them as well.

We also had them in the ROK, with the 2ID. Could be especially useful on the DMZ. When at the Guard Posts, around Warrior Base, etc. But again there I don't remember any dismounted patrols using them.

Being Mech we still had the old version. The Light Inf in the 2ID got the newer Kevlar @'84-'85.

,,,especially in places you expect to get mortared or stonked.

They stop some shrapnel and that was about it.

Too true, as I learned the hard way in 1969. There were a number of different models developed during the unpleasantness but, the Army's supply system being the joke it was, the units I was in when I went back in 1972 were still using the same model (maybe the same jackets for all I know). We wore them as seldom as possible.

LT

Yep, good to wear along with helmet around the compound where you could get mortared or rocketed. Worthless at stopping small arms. Hot and heavy as mentioned, too.

As ever , thanks to all who replied to my topic. So, that info will save me a lot of work. I may model a few in f/js.

Thinking about it humping an M-60 and other kit, AND an f/j
can`t even imagine how tough you boys were. Hammerhead
Any more comments welcome!

especially in places you expect to get mortared or stonked.

Indeed, e.g. on the ROK DMZ when I was there, '84-'85. We were in range of a lot of Nork FA, etc. And we were told we'd not only get HE, but Chem and maybe even incendiary, etc.

I still have my VN flak vest. I wear it when jogging around the neighborhood.

Wolfhag

wow .. tough neighbourhood ! … I have problems with the occasional farm dog when I go jogging , but I usually just carry a handful of gravel.

Hammerhead,
The Marines were using the M-14 when first deployed to VN and later started phasing in the early M-16 with the three prongs open flash suppressor. IIRC it was designed to cut the wire on the C-ration cases. However, it ended up getting snagged on vegetation. The unchromed barrel of the first ones had the bad jamming problem eliminated with the M-16A1 which also had the enclosed muzzle suppressor. I think they had a small "c" on the left side of the barrel.

We had M-14's in boot camp up until mid-1973 and Marine Barracks had them at many locations up until the late 1970's. Our web gear, packs, helmets, suspenders and shelter half was all WWII style.

Personally, I liked the M-14 but the M-16 being lighter and able to carry a lot more ammo made it worth while. The 20 round mags could be slipped into many small places. A problem I experienced with the M-16 was gas leaking back through the rear of the receiver and going into your face. I put a piece of electrical tape over it and tape to make a tight fit between the upper and lower receiver groups so they would not rattle. Also, the elevation adjustment on the M-16 front sight using a bullet to make the adjustment was insane. I could still get 10 of 10 on a human size silhouette at 500 yards with the M-16 on the range.

Yes, the M-60 was a bitch to hump and we generally gave it to the smallest guy because he was the smallest target.

If you are going to paint the M-14 for VN there was the wooden stock which was replaced by a fiberglass stock which was a lighter tan color.

Wolfhag

Also, I understand that the M1 helmet was redesigned and made smaller for Vietnam that what it was in the Pacific.

The elevation adjustments on the M16 are indeed a pain in the rear to set; thankfully they stay put once zeroed. I've also had issues with the M16A1 furniture being very brittle, but that may just be down to the forty-year-old originals I own brittling with age.

A big change has been the implementation of the ACOG sight.
link

I know a guy that was deployed last year that claims a one shot kill on a standing target at 700 meters with his M4 on the first shot without a range finder. I wouldn't normally believe that but he was on the US National Juniors AR-15 Championship team. I've shot against him on the 600-yard line and he is pretty good. It appears with the ACOG if you know the range you should be able to get a hit. A 1.5 mil group at 700 yards still has a pretty good chance of a man sized target. He said the shot went into his rib cage so he was right on. No way to do that with earlier weapons. No, he was not a Sniper or Designated Marksman with any special training.

He definitely admits it was a lucky shot.

Wolfhag