"Roman Knowledge of Atlantic/Britain" Topic

Hello Gentlemen,

I admit this is a rather unusual request for help, but you've never let me down in the past and so I come to you again. I'm currently having a good bit of fun writing a story for my children. It is about a fictitious island "somewhere in the Atlantic" that has since disappeared; it's not really meant to be Atlantis, but I could run with that if I have to. Now, if you're still with me, I do have a few questions, as my knowledge of things Roman has grown shaky over the years.

1.) What names did the Romans have for the Atlantic? Was it simply called Oceanus or did it have another name? I'm confused on this.

2.) Did the Romans have any tradition of lost islands (besides Atlantis – which I believe came from Plato?), particularly those of the "blessed" variety? I'd love to latch onto a tradition like perhaps that of Phaeacia for the Greeks. The whole conceit of this little story is that it was a rather splendid place but now is gone.

3.) Which Roman historians might have mentioned such a place if it existed? This would probably be the same as those who mentioned Britain, so I'm guessing Strabo, Diodorus Siculus? Tacitus?

4.) Were the Roman attitudes to the British Isles universally negative? They seem to have detested the climate and thought the inhabitants savages (no jokes, now!). I've found this article, which is quite helpful: link What I'd love to sniff out are some more positive references.

5.) As an aside (certainly not for the kids!), I've come across frequent Roman mentions of the Britains' cannibalism, wife-swapping, etc. Are these based on any kind of fact or are they just Roman smears about the Unknown, a little like Herodotus in his wilder moments?

6.) I'd love any Roman geographical terms that might be shoehorned into the story for atmosphere. The Pillars of Hercules will need to be mentioned, of course, but are there any other good ones? Did the Romans have a name for Ireland besides Hibernia?

Any help on even one of these questions would be much appreciated! I (and I like to think my children) thank you!

Try looking up Ultima Thule en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule some of the legends of it may help.

x42

You will find the Ptolemy Cosmographia quite useful. Written in the 2nd century AD it will give you a Roman perspective of realms outside the empire.

link

From Wiki: link

Cheers,

Hy=Brasil link might be a good candidate for the mysterious isle?

Those are superb leads, thank you both. Thule (Thyle) might be just what I'm looking for.

Any other information would still be much appreciated.

Edit: Timbo, the Brasil lead is an excellent one as well. I worry that my "readership" might get hung up thinking it was Brazil, but otherwise it is about perfect. I'm actually learning a great deal with this!

The single historical reference to Atlantis come from Plato's (Greek) "Timaeus and Critias" written 360 BC.

The Fortunate Islands were a mythical group of islands in the Atlantic in antiquity. A little later there were others like Great Ireland, Hy-Brasil, as mentioned. The Canary Islands were also believed to exist, but undiscovered during the period.

Their names for the west winds (and hence compass directions) were Favonius and Caurus (spellings varied from time to time). In common with "Terra Australis" and the like, for the far south, talk of "Terra Favonia" might be appropriate.

Ptolemy referred to Ireland as "Mikra Bretannia" (or Little Britain), and it was later known as Iouernia, which became Hibernia. The Romans also called it Scotia (the Scotii who lent their name to Scotland having originated in Ireland).

I would imagine that the stories of cannibalism and polygamy are largely just that, stories. However it is hard to be sure. Human sacrifice may well have been a thing, and the Romans might have built that up into cannibalism and other immoral practices. Things like wife-swapping might have varied from tribe to tribe or have been a subculture not representative of the majority. These days we'd be more careful about generalising Britain as a country of swingers, but they certainly exist all the same!

Have you considered the Isles of Scilly

link

and the legend of Lyonesse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyonesse

possibly fodder with a bit of work

Deuce, I can't thank you enough. That is hugely informative, with some perfect terms I might use. Your last sentence made me laugh. Perfectly true! And let's face it, salacious details have always helped assure one of a readership…

Rupert, I greatly appreciate the added leads. The Isles of Scilly are probably more factual than I'd like, if that makes sense. Lyonesse, on the other hand, could be very useful, though I'd follow the Lost Lands Beneath the Waves angle instead of having it a proxy for Cornwall!

With all the input I think I'm ready to roll. One last question:

Would it be correct to have my Roman "source" refer to the Atlantic as Oceanus?

Interesting note. During the Ice Age the water levels of the oceans were about 150 feet lower. If you check the underwater couture maps look at all water levels which are under 150 feet and there is a good chance that they would be above water.

Might be a basis for a story about an advanced race that disappeared.

Following on Gamershs' post, the current name for the 'drowned' lands between the UK and mainland Europe is 'Doggerland', same as the Dogger Banks of Jutland fame.

There is a fair bit of Paleo- and Archeo- interest and activity in the area these days. It is likely that the stories about Lyonesse at least partly originated from the large pieces of waterlogged trees that wash up on the coast after major storm events.

@Deuce: "I would imagine that the stories of cannibalism and polygamy are largely just that, stories. However it is hard to be sure. Human sacrifice may well have been a thing"

Maybe because the witnesses were all killed and eaten, and their heads shrunk down to the size of little maracas. :)

Dan

Gamershs ad Bsrlee, that is more excellent information. Thank you!

Would it be correct to have my Roman "source" refer to the Atlantic as Oceanus?

I think so. Pliny refers to various parts of the Atlantic as the Oceanus Atlanticus (apparently the bit west of Gibraltar only?), Oceanus Gallicus (Bay of Biscay), and Oceanus Britannicus (the North Sea).

Thank you, LC! That is just the information I was looking for.