"40k 8th Edition Launch date confirmed" Topic

95£ translates to $123 USD USD where does GW get off?!?

I agree. One of the consistent problems I have with miniatures wargaming are UK companies overcharging overseas customers.

I don't know how many companies I order from UK to US that DON'T remove VAT and then charge a 25%+ shipping charge on top of it (it's a hobby of mine to see how much I got ripped off on shipping when the package arrives and I calculate the actual cost of postage on Royal Mail site). GW is just like Artizan for example. Charge US customers extra for… who knows why.

So given this you would need to spend over $300 USD USD just to get the stuff need to play the game.

Mithmee, you don't really need to buy Official Games Workshop Dice or Official Games Workshop Measuring Stick do you?

The cards are just a card deck of the objectives table already in the rulebook. The command dice are just fancy D6's. The wound markers are just d10's. The gauge is just a measuring stick. The objectives are just fancy tokens.

Cost of entry is $60 USD for the hardback, or $150 USD for the starter set (which includes the rulbook). The Index books are just physical copies of stats of all currently existing models, which will be available for free to download anyway!

If you didn't care about the fluff or fancy extra rules you can download the 14 page PDF rules for free!

"Mithmee, you don't really need to buy Official Games Workshop Dice or Official Games Workshop Measuring Stick do you?"

Mithmee seems like a pretty dyed-in-the-wool fanboy, only the self-hating variety. He can't seem to get enough of GW, so maybe he feels like it is all part of the package.

The price of which is competitive with any other company out there producing a similar product. Black Powder, when I bought it 8 years or so ago, was $50 USD and it is about 100 pages less.

I can't believe people are complaining about $160 USD boxed set that includes 53 high quality miniatures, all the dice etc and a 280 pg, full colour, hardback rulebook.

If you take out the cost of the rulebook it is less than $2 USD a figure. And more than half of them are nearly 40mm figures. We aren't talking about goblins or something here.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the rulebook cost. $60 USD for 280 page full color chock full of stuff is a tremendous deal. I pay over $30 USD for 24-page Partizan Press pamphlets with 4 color pages…

Of course all the accessories are pricey but are completely unnecessary to play.

I'm complaining because of the botched exchange rate. And why shouldn't I? As I have said before, the ing sticker shock for their product would be a LOT better if I was paying proportionally what the West Europeans were. I understand the need to maintain a stable MSRP rate, but how long does the pound have to be so weak that they begin to take that into account?

Don't lump everyone in with Mithmee, Pictors.

And personally, now that I see the (grumble) MSRP on the "accessories", I don't feel that they're too badly priced (just fine at + <30%) Pimp your game if you want to. Or not. I may pick up the objectives, MAYBE the command dice on a whim. I don't scorn GW for such offerings.

I'm complaining because of the botched exchange rate. And why shouldn't I? As I have said before, the Bleeped texting sticker shock for their product would be a LOT better if I was paying proportionally what the West Europeans were.

Yup, there's very few UK based companies that don't screw over the overseas customer. Even Perry charges an arm and a leg for shipping, and half the companies charge US customers VAT on top of ridiculous shipping, to the tune of a 45% markup over what the 'actual' cost is.

Thankfully it's relatively easy to get discounts on GW now. My FLGS is doing a 10% off for preordering, and 10% back as store credit if you spend over $50. USD

As bad as the pound-to-dollar exchange rate goes, we really have little to complain about compared to the poor Aussies. Many Aussies get their figs from recasters in China because of this methinks.

link

Yeah, the NZ site gets the updates further because they get up a lot earlier than we do. When people link to new products they will often do it to the NZ site and it is shocking to see the cost of stuff there. If it were in some other currency you would realize that it wasn't in real money quickly enough but they use some sort of dollar down there too.

If I were a company that was looking to put a product out that had to maintain a steady price over several years then I'd want to make sure that I priced it appropriately.

There is a lot that goes into importing figures. People could always buy stuff directly from the Perrys at a cheaper rate than they would get in the exchange over here but you do pay shipping, which is not cheap.

I can tell you from importing a range of figures there are a lot of costs customers don't see. I don't understand how anyone makes a living from importing figures into this country, the margins end up being pretty small.

There is a lot that goes into importing figures.

I am sure that some of the GW markup is to cover the cost of shipping UK to US. For example GW airfreighted the Shadow War Armageddon book from a UK printer to the USA so it would only take a week or so to come into stock, versus waiting a month for a normal ship to cross the seas/etc.

I guess the end result is: gosh I wish stuff was cheaper. This applies to the new Camaro I just bought as well as GW figures. And Foundry! They're expensive for no good reason…

Space Marines and Dark Angels will be in the same index

No they will put out a Space Marine Codex and than later a Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves Codexes because that is more money for them.

Based on what? Your extensive understanding of the new rules that haven't been published yet? The fact that you admittedly haven't even looked in a White Dwarf in more than a decade? The fact that you seem to not even be able to run the armies you like effectively?

How about that you only have 22 total Marines there and I consider a decent force to be around 60-80 Marines oh and around 180-200 Imperial Guard.

If I want to look at petty pictures of GW miniatures I just need to Google them and do it for free, no need to give GW money for that.

White Dwarf is a tad bit better but it is still no where near what it was 25 years ago.

Plus how would you know if I could run my armies effectively or not. Games Workshop nerf the hell out of Eldar Guardians over 16 years ago and since than very few Eldar players actually fielded them since they sucked.

You keep of trying to play down GW prices by trying to spin things your own way.

There miniatures costs far more than you think they do and very few new players will be able to buy what I already have.

Since in order to do so they would need to spend quite a lot. Because I believe in big armies and not little tiny squad on squad action.

Mithmee, you don't really need to buy Official Games Workshop Dice or Official Games Workshop Measuring Stick do you?

The cards are just a card deck of the objectives table already in the rulebook. The command dice are just fancy D6's. The wound markers are just d10's. The gauge is just a measuring stick. The objectives are just fancy tokens.

I did not even put that into the that $300 USD amount.

Box Set = $160 USD or $176 USD with tax (I live in Washington State and Sales Tax is over 10%)

Space Marine Codex
Eldar Codex
Ork Codex
Imperial Guard Codex
Dark Angel Codex
Possibly Harlequin Codex

Even at $25 USD each that is $100 USD to $150 USD or $110 USD to $165 USD with tax.

So add everything up and you are close to or over $300. USD

Yeah, see here is where your ignorance is apparent.

You buy the space marine index you get Dark Angels and vanilla marines.

You buy the one Xenos index and you get Harlequins and Eldar (and necrons if you're counting)

You buy the other one you get Orks, Genestealers, Tyranids and Tau.

You buy the other imperial codex you get IG and all the other imperial things except marines.

You didn't even know that. You don't know what you're talking about at all. You have no clue yet again.

"How about that you only have 22 total Marines there and I consider a decent force to be around 60-80 Marines oh and around 180-200 Imperial Guard."

Based on what? Again, your poor ability to do math or read?
Because you sure didn't comprehend what I said about the indexes last time.

If you bought two starter sets for full retail price and sold off the Chaos stuff (say you get $100 USD for the chaos stuff from both sets, $220 USD) or split it with a friend ($160) and you would have a force of 40 figures

That is 40 marines and these are super marines. So probably equivalent to your 60-80 regular marines. At least.

So by even your estimation, for about $220 USD or even as little as $160 USD you have a force that you consider to be a decent force.

I am sure that some of the GW markup is to cover the cost of shipping UK to US. For example GW airfreighted the Shadow War Armageddon book from a UK printer to the USA so it would only take a week or so to come into stock, versus waiting a month for a normal ship to cross the seas/etc.

GW did consider to build a factory in the US, back in the day, precisely to avoid shipping extra costs. However, its client base in the US never was considered big enough to justify the expenses and the project was dropped. I am talking about the early 2000s, so it is "ancient history" bussiness-wise

Just how horrible are the shipping costs​ to NZ? I was under the impression that everything was expensive there, along the lines of how everything but pineapples are expensive in Hawai'i.

The 8th Edition rules will be online for free – FACT

If AoS is any precedent, unit stats will also be online for free through the GW webstore. If you can buy the mini from GW, the game stats will be free to download.

Can't see the reason for complaint on the basis of cost, when the rules will be free and the unit stats are likely to be free as well. You won't have to buy the boxed set or any of the accessories to start playing 8th.

Cheers

w.

Complaining about the prices of the codicies because you have multiple armies is ridiculous IMHO. $25 USD for an army book is not a bad price. And so what if they come out with individual codicies at a later date? If you don't want to pay $125 USD for all the books because you have multiple armies, then you should probably sell them. Or deal with the fact you couldn't stay disciplined & collect one army.

Damon.

I have previous armies of Eldar and Dark Eldar, from 3rd edition. I am unsure of the viability of my army compositions. Because these models are close to 20 years old, buying new models to add to the forces is unrealistic due to scale creep. Basically, I need to pay $85 USD dollars just to see if I can use my old stuff.

Once again, I am,priced out of the game.

Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut,

If you haven't been following along, the core rules are free. The hardback 280 pg rulebook is $60 USD, which is a pretty good price. The indices are $25. USD

You can use your old stuff. I use the old Dark Eldar models right alongside the new Dark Eldar models in my Dark Eldar army without any problem.

Buying new models to add to your force is not unrealistic at all. I've done it.

So basically you need to pay $25 USD for a book that covers both of your armies to be able to play the game.

Probably if you wanted to see if you could use your old stuff you could do it for free by looking through one of the books at your local game store quickly, in which case you could just "see if (you) can use (your) old stuff" for the big cost of nothing.

Once again, you are priced out of the game if you don't have $25 USD to spend on your hobby for the next four years or so.

"I am unsure of the viability of my army compositions."

It's also worth pointing out that NOBODY currently knows the viability of their army compositions because we don't know any of the full new stats or point costs for anything. Personally as a Tyranid player I am PRAYING that things are massively shaken up even if that does necessitate me buying more models for my army (Pyrovores anyone? Lol).

Looking at the Only War mission from today's update, force composition for open or narrative play appears to be 'Eh, play with what you've got'. It specifically addresses not having enough models to make a 'full' unit.

Wehrmacht- seriously? Considering we make our own proxies from green stuff and crap we pull together out of the recycling glued together with varying degrees of enthusiasm and sobriety, this means we'll be playing 8th for FREE! Bravo GW if this turns out to be the case

Skinflint Games,

If you can bring our attention to a company that offers free rules AND miniatures, I'm all ears.

28mm – free rules: wrote our own, and soon to come apparently 8th ed 40k! Free (ish) minis- paper craft and scratch built vehicles, 1/72 infantry with conversions (okay, not free, but dirt cheap- a while army for under £20.00 GBP down).

paper craft and scratch built vehicles, 1/72 infantry with conversions

Seriously? Hey, whatever works for you buddy. I guess.

Wehrmacht- seriously? Considering we make our own proxies from green stuff and crap we pull together out of the recycling glued together with varying degrees of enthusiasm and sobriety, this means we'll be playing 8th for FREE! Bravo GW if this turns out to be the case

Well, GW has confirmed officially that 8th Ed core rules will be free: link

"Universal Special Rules" as we now know them will no longer exist, and unit special rules and their effects will be noted in the unit descriptions. Right now we know that these will be available in summary book form – $25 USD each for forces of the Imperium (2 vols.), Xenos (2 vols.) and Chaos.

However, GW did the same thing with Age of Sigmar and in that case, made the unit descriptions available for free. If you go to the GW store, each AoS unit that's available for sale has an associated "warscroll" (description) that can be downloaded for free – no purchase necessary – and these provide all the rules to use that unit in AoS.

As an old WHFB player I have lots of Warhammer Fantasy armies and we have used them in AoS – for free – by downloading the warscrolls. I would think that GW would likely (eventually) follow this path with 40K also.

Cheers

w.

See when Napoleon changed the French uniforms just so we'd have to buy new figures!!!! Money grabbing git! Then he did it again, and then so did the Austrians, and I'd just bought an army of those. And don't get me started on Waterloo. That was just another excuse for us all to have to buy yet another new army.

just another excuse for us all to have to buy yet another new army.

Have to or want to? You don't have to buy a single new miniature in order to play 8th Edition at all. You can use Rogue Trader-era RTB01 Mark VI beakie marines or any other 1st generation Citadel figures if you wish.

But many people can't help but be tempted by the latest-and-greatest miniatures because they're "too cool" and hard to resist. So Citadel should just Stop. Making. Miniatures. and shut down its business.

Based on what? Again, your poor ability to do math or read?

How about based on I prefer to field more miniatures than you.

I could give you a list of miniatures and have you price them using GW prices but you would just end up trying to spin this and totally ignore what the real cost would be to a new player.

Well, GW has confirmed officially that 8th Ed core rules will be free.

Oh they will put out Data Sheets just like they did with their Fantasy Space Marine game.

Thing is they know that those will get replaced by the Codexes and other things that they will be putting out.

Like those one off units that will only be found in White Dwarf – thus forcing you to buy it.

28mm – amen brother :-)

Wehrmacht- well, damn, good on them, we shall be taking full advantage! Thanks for the heads up

$25 USD for an army book is not a bad price

True this is a far better price than the current $50 USD-$60 that they gouged their customers during the last several years.

If you don't want to pay $125 USD USD for all the books because you have multiple armies, then you should probably sell them. Or deal with the fact you couldn't stay disciplined & collect one army.

Well if today GW prices that is all most gamers can barely do.

Thing is some of us got our stuff 20 – 30 years ago and you could actually afford to buy 5-7 40K armies and WFB armies.

It had nothing to do with discipline but the ability to buy what you wanted.

I Started with Harlequins then picked up Eldar, then Dark Angels, Imperial Guard and finally Orks.

Each army played differently but you are stating that you should really only ever have is one army, which is the case for many these days since they do not have the ability to buy more than one army.

Looking at the Only War mission from today's update, force composition for open or narrative play appears to be 'Eh, play with what you've got'.

Saw that and it does mention that if the Power Point levels are different than the player with the smaller force would be the Underdog.

So with someone like me who has close to two companies of Space Marines I could use them as my force and if my opponent only has like 40 models that would be their force.

They would be the Underdog and my mission would be to kill every single on those 40 models which should happen when you out number your opponent by 5-1.

Even worst there are certain players who could put a full up Chapter onto the table.

"How about based on I prefer to field more miniatures than you."

I'm going based on your army sizes. You put the numbers out there. If you don't like your own argument perhaps you should reevaluate your opinions.

"I could give you a list of miniatures and have you price them using GW prices but you would just end up trying to spin this and totally ignore what the real cost would be to a new player."

No one is saying that any army out there is going to be cheap. An Astra Militarium infantry army is going to be expensive.

What you are claiming is that the cost to get involved in the game is prohibitively expensive.

It is not. You are the one who is ignoring reality here.

Like this:

"Thing is some of us got our stuff 20 – 30 years ago and you could actually afford to buy 5-7 40K armies and WFB armies.

It had nothing to do with discipline but the ability to buy what you wanted."

Complete and utter . 20 years ago, 22 years ago, a box of 10 space marines was $35. USD It is now $40. USD

But $35 USD in 1995 is actually worth $56.08 USD in 2016 and probably slightly more today.

So figures are actually cheaper in real money now than they were then.

I know that you don't believe in inflation or understand it but it is a real thing, just like the world being round.

Not only are the figures cheaper now, they are better sculpts in a lot of cases made out of a better material for gaming with.

"So with someone like me who has close to two companies of Space Marines I could use them as my force and if my opponent only has like 40 models that would be their force.

They would be the Underdog and my mission would be to kill every single on those 40 models which should happen when you out number your opponent by 5-1."

Of course if you were going to play like this the player who is that badly outnumbered should probably have a big terrain advantage.

After all historical gamers play that game all the time. It is a blast.

20 years ago, 22 years ago, a box of 10 space marines was $35. USD USD It is now $40 USD

Care to discuss what Eldar Dire Avengers cost back then for 10 of them and what they cost today? I would like to see how you can explain a over 3 times increase in price.

Actually the world is not round but you can go with on believing that.

Of course if you were going to play like this the player who is that badly outnumbered should probably have a big terrain advantage.

They can have all the terrain they want but if I put 200 Space Marines onto the table against just 40 Space Marines on a normal 4' x 6' table the outcome will be the same no matter what the terrain is.

I can afford to lose miniatures they can't and remember terrain works both ways.

"Actually the world is not round but you can go with on believing that."

The world is round. Although it doesn't surprise me that you don't think so.

"I can afford to lose miniatures they can't and remember terrain works both ways."

So the defenders of the Alamo and Santa Anna's troops both had the same level of cover during the fight?

I bet I could put a table and a 40 marine army together that could beat your 200 marines.

"Care to discuss what Eldar Dire Avengers cost back then for 10 of them and what they cost today? I would like to see how you can explain a over 3 times increase in price."

Sure, I'll explain this to you again. Two Dire Avengers back in the day were $6.99 USD. Five today are $35. USD

Ten of them back then would cost 5x $6.99 USD is about $35. USD

Ten of them now would cost $70. USD So even at straight value the figures have not increased 3x, as you allege.

But, the $35 USD is 1995 dollars. If you look at inflation, which again I know you don't believe in or understand, that $35 USD is now worth $57 USD, so only a $13 USD, or 18% increase in price in real dollars.

If you subtract that from your estimate of a 300% increase in price, you see that you are wrong by 282%.

And the price of marines, which is what most people play, has actually decreased. And the price of Eldar guardians has decreased significantly in terms of actual value.

Another thread derailed…. great stuff! 🙄

Yes it is.

Oh and I was talking prices back in the mid to late 1990's and there was a time where you got five Dire Avengers for just $6 USD or ten for less than $15. USD

But then GW started to raise prices until they totally screwed new Eldar players by taking the price for ten from $35 USD to $70 USD or a 100% increase in price.

Complete price gouging and they did the same for Witch Elves, Dwarven Hammers and other units as well.

$7 USD dollars per miniature and that is before taxes so in my area that price is actually more than $8 USD per miniature.

Now we have GW beginning the process of getting rid of the old Space Marines and replacing them with these larger and more costly Space Marines.

So I doubt that GW will ever get me back at all.

Osprey is putting out better rules these days for far less money.

"Oh and I was talking prices back in the mid to late 1990's and there was a time where you got five Dire Avengers for just $6 USD USD or ten for less than $15. USD USD"

This didn't happen. You are trying to tell us that they sold more figures for more money. So buy 5 for $6 USD or get 10 for $14.99 USD.

You're just wrong. You were wrong about the Primaris marines not being able to be used in Chapters other than Ultramarines. You are wrong about them getting rid of all of the other Chapters of the Space Marines. You were wrong about the sword Cypher was carrying. You just don't know what you are talking about anymore, if at any point you ever did.

When I started buying GW figures for 40K in 1995 a terminator was $6.50 USD. Typically most figures were 2 for $5.99 USD. A few figures in the fantasy line were 3 for $6.99 USD, like Skaven slaves or clan rats, but not many. Command packs were three figures for $9.99 USD.

In the mid to late 1990s you did not get 5 Dire Avengers for $6. USD

This didn't happen.

You're just wrong.

No I am right.

Go head and count the number per pack/blister and you will see that you are wrong.

GW has been screwing over their customers for a very long time.

Because they did use to package five miniatures per pack/blister than it went to three per and finally to two per.

Then they went to four/five per box.

I know it sucks when I am right but I started buying their miniatures back in 1989 when you could get ten miniatures in a blister pack.

Oh and for $10 USD before taxes.

Nice metal miniatures as well.

No, you're not right, it is just that in addition to math, reading and the idea of inflation you also do not understand the concept of time very well.

"mid to late 1990's"

is not the same as

"their miniatures back in 1989"

Those aren't dire avengers. They're the 2.0 design of "regular eldar", predating the "guardian". They went on to influence the design of the dire avengers.

Dire Avengers came in packs of five as did:

Howling Banshees
Swooping Hawks
Striking Scorpions

I know because I brought mine when they came five to a pack.

"their miniatures back in 1989"

You must have a problem reading because I said:

I started buying their miniatures back in 1989 when you could get ten miniatures in a blister pack.

So the very first miniatures I got from GW came 10 to a pack for $10 USD back in 1989 but within two years they had changed their packing system to just five in a pack/blister.

You see they went from:

Ten

to

Five

to

Three

than

Two

Yeah, I'm not the one that has a problem reading.

Here is your complete quote:

"Oh and I was talking prices back in the mid to late 1990's and there was a time where you got five Dire Avengers for just $6 USD USD or ten for less than $15. USD USD"

So we can add memory trouble to the list.

Mid 1990's is from 1994 to 1996 with late 1993 falling in there as well.

Early 1990's is from 1990 to 1993

Late 1990's 1997 to 1999

You just do not want to state that those blisters that I posted above have five miniatures in them.

I brought all of my Aspect Warriors in blister packs because back then that was the only way to get them, and they were five to to a pack and were less than $6. USD

Then GW changed from lead to white metal and started to package them with fewer miniatures in each blister pack until there were only two in each pack.

They also use to provide decent priced box sets for the normal troops as well.

I picked out the Guardians and Space Orks boxes as well.

But since these were not around when you started buying they must never had existed and GW never put these boxes out.

GW does not do anything these days unless there is money in it for them.

Those box set went away because players could get a decent size army with very little money.

"Mid 1990's is from 1994 to 1996 with late 1993 falling in there as well.

Early 1990's is from 1990 to 1993

Late 1990's 1997 to 1999"

Yes and you said mid to late 90s. 1995 is solidly in there as is 1997. The earliest I bought a GW figure was when I was in Hucknal in the UK in 1987, the summer between 5th and 6th grade. So I know what was on offer.

Things were cheaper back then. When I first started buying Old Glory figures they retailed at $21 USD a bag for $30 USD figures. That was in 1999. They are now $36 USD for 30 figures.

True the army discount ameliorates most of that increase but so does the fact that online retailers sell GW stuff for 20% off and now 15% off. And a lot of stores give a 10-20% discount on GW stuff.

"Those box set went away because players could get a decent size army with very little money."

And players still can.

"They also use to provide decent priced box sets for the normal troops as well."

They still do. BaC, BoP and all the get started sets are fantastic value for money.

"GW does not do anything these days unless there is money in it for them."

Why on earth would they? Are you some sort of socialist that thinks companies should work for no profit?

Those boxed sets were a good deal at the time but the figures in them are just not as well sculpted or designed as the figures today.

Actually they were better designed since you did not have to wasted 20-30 minutes per figure on putting it together like you need to do today.

Plus there are many of us who think that the miniatures that GW puts out these days are really not that great.

GW does not do anything these days unless there is money in it for them."

Why on earth would they? Are you some sort of socialist that thinks companies should work for no profit?

Profit yes but GW prefers to gouge their customers, which is why Dire Avengers are $7 USD-$8 per miniatures.

This is why Witch Elves were double in price as well along with many other units.

GW knew that these units were the go to units for those armies so they double the price on them.

That is just being greedy and had nothing to do with making a fair amount of profit.

"This is why Witch Elves were double in price as well along with many other units.

GW knew that these units were the go to units for those armies so they double the price on them.

That is just being greedy and had nothing to do with making a fair amount of profit."

I think the above is also one of the primary reasons Tom Kirby is no longer the top guy at GW, because that approach was clearly not working. So they got a new CEO that actually plays the games and things have taken a massively positive turnaround in the last year or so, you would have to be completely blind to deny that.