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"GW releases AOS Skirmish and Mausoleum model" Topic


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Baranovich Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2017 7:34 a.m. PST

GW just released a new skirmish supplement for AOS.

The reason I post this is two-fold. One, to make AOS players aware that this is now available.

And two, that regular AOS is NOT a skirmish game. I've been saying this since the beginning. It isn't. Practically every single rumor mill GW/Warhammer channel on Youtube has denounced AOS as being a "skirmish-based big model" game. It isn't. It's a mass-battle fantasy game that happens to use round bases with units that are a little looser than the traditional ranking-up type units of Warhammer or KOW, etc.

There are players on these forums who play AOS games that are as large as old Warhammer games were model-count wise. The only thing preventing you from playing AOS as a mass battle game is if you refuse to do it. Pictors Studio and Mongoose Matt are two excellent examples of players who play AOS and use mass-battle scenarios and campaigns.

Round bases do not auto-equal a skirmish game. In AOS, you can still amass units in ranks whether the bases are square or round. The only difference is that in AOS the models are slightly separated from one another. But they can still be formed into squares, columns, battle lines, etc.

I've really lost patience with all the band-wagon negative backlash against AOS, with one of the chief accusations leveled at it is that it supposedly abandoned mass combat in favor of bigger models, and only skirmish-sized games. This is patently false.

Look, if you don't like AOS and don't like what GW did by discontinuing Warhammer, that's cool, just don't play it. But please try not to spread band-wagon misconceptions about AOS, particularly if you have never played it.

THIS is AOS Skirmish, a new warbands-size battle rules supplement. Seems like a pretty cool addition to AOS. 40 pages, $10 USD:

link

picture

GW also released a model called the "Sigmarite Mausoleum". It looks to be an expanded version of the old Garden of Morr model, with more crypt pieces and a bigger area that it covers.

Seems like a pretty cool model with a lot of detail. $80 USD:

link

picture

brucka21 May 2017 9:30 a.m. PST

Thanks for the update.

Xintao Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2017 9:50 a.m. PST

The Mausoleum is just 2 sets of the Gardens of Morr.

It's a great deal, considering one set is $50 USD (still available as of this post). Now 2 for $80. USD

Also up for preorder is a neoprene battle mat that goes perfect with the Mausoleum.

picture

CeruLucifus21 May 2017 10:05 a.m. PST

Thanks for the post about the upcoming releases.

I always tried to comment on AOS using constructive criticism, but possibly others saw my posts differently.

I always felt comfortable saying AOS wasn't a mass battle game because I felt Warhammer Fantasy wasn't a mass battle game. Any game that uses individual figures as 1:1 scale warriors and tracks wounds per model, is not a mass battle game, because you can't scale big enough to the point where players proxy as generals. Fantasy Battle used units that were squad or platoon sized, giving battles of 1-2 companies per side, at best battalion size with the players proxying as colonels. Hardly mass battle, unless you compare it to its brethren 40K, where the forces are at best company size, with the players proxying as captains.

What do you call a game that doesn't scale big enough to simulate a mass battle, that moves individual warriors around? Skirmish is one word commonly used, although admittedly most players think of skirmish scenarios as using fewer than 50 warriors per player, and not grouping models into disciplined units.

Anyway AOS, at least when first released which is when I played it, also used 1:1 models for warriors, and we found it impractical to move units as big as we'd used routinely in Fantasy Battle, so it always felt smaller. So if I ever used the word "Skirmish" to constructively criticize AOS, it always felt well-applied, since I was using those rules to play with smaller forces compared to its predecessor which had always played like a skirmish game that was stretched badly to try to be bigger.

So … that said …

I always especially enjoyed the several iterations of Warhammer Skirmish, because they gave games that could play in an hour and were quite fun. If there's a rulebook that does the same thing for AOS, I'm very interested.

However we did find locally with Warhammer Skirmish that players wanted to scale bigger and use more models. I could never keep players interested even though they always admitted that our games of Fantasy Battle took too long, were too complicated, and rarely played to conclusion.

So I hope I'm pleasantly surprised but I'll expect AOS Skirmish to follow a similar path as far as ultimate player acceptance.

vogless21 May 2017 10:13 a.m. PST

I might use the terrain and mat for Frostgrave.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP21 May 2017 11:35 a.m. PST

As someone who is a huge fan of AoS, I don't think it can be fairly called a mass battle game in the same way that WHFB is or WAB is.

It can be used to make games with as many figures as those games and works smoothly in battles of that size but I think it is more used to play smaller battles.

That being said it is certainly not a skirmish set like SW:A, Infinity or Frostgrave.

A better word would be something like a Warband game. Somewhere between mass battle and skirmish.

In WAB you will typically have 200 or more models in an army, 6 or more units of 24+ figures each in the battle line, skirmishers, cavalry and commanders. Units could easily be much bigger. My phalanxes were 32-48 men with most of them being 48 figures.

You don't really have that with AoS. Units are typically 10-15 models or smaller. You might only have 10-12 of them a size. Typically, from what I've seen, armies are around 100 figures, more elite armies might have fewer.

They aren't moving in the same way as a mass battle game. You aren't so concerned about formation or facing. So it misses out on that which I think is something of a hallmark of a mass battle game.

But neither are you worried about whether a model is crouching, or crawling or concerned that his buddy got shot so pinned in place by himself.

So it clearly isn't a skirmish game either.

WH40K is the same scale.

Knight of St John21 May 2017 12:01 p.m. PST

I have some armies for Warhammer 8th edition, of 2000 points. If I were to use them for Age of Sigmar would the game Be quicker or longer ?
Michael.

brucka21 May 2017 12:55 p.m. PST

I liked that all the special rules were well grouped in the 8th edition rulebook. My thought is AoS plays much faster. Less special rules (though there are some scenario specfic ones) and less figuring out flanks/ranks etc and less time on the magic. Have only read AoS rules and orc and wood elf scrolls.
I also would suggest WHFB is a warband game.
Impetus works well for fantasy mass battle.

Andy Skinner Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2017 1:42 p.m. PST

We use "skirmish" in more than one way. Some folks mean a handful of figures in gaming today, but I think of any game where I'm not managing large formations of troops. Mass battles are too large to represent without some abstraction (1 figure = X soldiers, multi-based figures, etc).

I describe games I like (Age of Fantasy, by One Page Rules, for example) as "large skirmish". I'm using a bunch of troops, but they aren't in rank and file and aren't representing enough soldiers to really count as a big battle.

The AoS battle reports I've seen definitely look like skirmishes to me, but I think we're just defining the term differently.

andy

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP21 May 2017 4:55 p.m. PST

Michael,

I don't know as I never played anything past 6th edition. Compared to 6th edition it would depend on the army a lot.

So if you have a 2000 pt Goblin army, AoS would take longer to play. If you have a Chaos army AoS would probably take less time to play.

This is keeping in mind that the 6th edition magic phase was pretty simple. I understand that the 8th edition one is not.

In AoS magic is much simplified, so I guess it will depend on how much magic is involved in your armies too.

Knight of St John21 May 2017 8:32 p.m. PST

Thank you.

emckinney21 May 2017 10:04 p.m. PST

I'm not sure exactly how big it is, but that is a LOT of model for $80. USD GW has really stepped up their competitiveness in the terrain market.

Andy Skinner Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2017 4:58 a.m. PST

I agree about the mausoleum. Wouldn't fit my style, but it looks impressive to me.

andy

Personal logo The Beast Rampant Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2017 9:12 p.m. PST

I initially scoffed at the AoS:S faction boxes, but they are an impressive value. The Ironjawz one is more than a third cheaper.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP23 May 2017 6:18 a.m. PST

For the Seraphon one you get all of the models in it except for the Carnosaur essentially for free. So Carnosaur, unit of cavalry, unit of infantry for the price of a Carnosaur.

Bob Runnicles Inactive Member23 May 2017 8:59 a.m. PST

He's talking about the Skirmish forces I think – GW has a number of deals up now that are specifically aimed at AOS:Skirmish.

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