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"Shipwreck movement question" Topic


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531 hits since 14 May 2017
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Comments or corrections?

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member15 May 2017 7:36 a.m. PST

Ahoy. It occurs to me that I may not be doing missile movement correctly in Shipwreck and am hoping folks can provide some clarity.

Range bands break down like this:

V Long range = 150 – 85 miles
Long range = 85 – 25 miles
Medium range = 25 – 12 miles
Short range = 12 – 4 miles
V Short range = under 4 miles

So an Exocet AM39 launched from 70 miles out is at long range. Next phase, it moves to medium, but that's between 25 and 12 miles from the target. Do you move it to 25 miles from the target? Or 12 miles? Somewhere in between?

I get that missiles (and aircraft) move somewhat abstractly by range bands, so the precise location on the table shouldn't matter that much, just the relative position between launch platform and target.

Unless there is a third party that can get involved.

Then the actual location really matters, because what is "medium" range to the target might be "long" or "short" to a platform that is offset significantly from the target (third point in a triangle, so to speak).

How, then, do you track movement?

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP15 May 2017 8:43 a.m. PST

You have just come across (one of) my big issues with Shipwreck. I've sought an answerto no avail previously

Mako11 Inactive Member15 May 2017 12:21 p.m. PST

Can't recall the time scale for SW, but imagine it is on the order of 6 – 10 minutes/turn.

Even at 3 minutes per turn, it hardly matters, since you can just use the range bands as-is, since even subsonic missiles fly at 500 – 600 MPH, so they'll move 25 – 30 miles in a turn.

If you really want the detail, make a list of weapons and jet speeds, and move your little minis or cardboard chits accordingly, each turn.

Being offset, you should be able to measure the distances then, to determine the "actual" range(s) for your game.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member15 May 2017 12:28 p.m. PST

Thanks, Mako, but that's not exactly the point. One could play Harpoon and do that, but…Harpoon. :)

I'm assuming the author (and people who play this game a lot) have a method by which they play that isn't directly communicated in the book. I'm just wondering what that is.

E.g. you always move the missile/aircraft to the highest value of the range band.

So, my Exocet launched from 60 NM out moves to 25 NM (the upper limit of the medium range band) from the target in the next phase. If a third party platform (i.e. neither the target nor the launching platform) wants to get involved, they determine their range bands separately i.e. from this 3rd platform to the point where the missile currently (25 NM from its target, but potentially in a longer or shorter range band from this 3rd party).

Mako11 Inactive Member15 May 2017 5:02 p.m. PST

I suspect they probably didn't even think about 3rd parties, when writing the rules.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member15 May 2017 6:21 p.m. PST

You may be right.

That seems really odd to assume that if there are, say, two American ships, both will effectively be side-by-side with no appreciable distance between them.

Trierarch15 May 2017 11:05 p.m. PST

Hi Darth

I just put the missiles/aircraft in the middle of each band.
You have to play loose or you will end up with the problem DM and Mako allude to.

Regarding the rest of the task force – yep, just measure the range band to to the nominal missile position.

The biggest problem is the size of most models :-)

Cheers
David

M C MonkeyDew16 May 2017 5:58 a.m. PST

Or just consider the missile to be passing through that entire range band during the turn. The distance at which a third party can fire would be at any point desired with that span.

In any event just make sure all the players know which method you plan to use before the game starts.

I find it more of a problem with subs than missiles though due to the relative speeds involved.

Bob

Mako11 Inactive Member16 May 2017 7:41 p.m. PST

To fix this, for a number of things, e.g. ships, subs, aircraft, missiles, I imported speed and range data for some of my games, from other sources.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member17 May 2017 2:24 p.m. PST

Good suggestions, all – thanks.

I was reading Admiral Sir Sandy Woodward's memoirs of the Falklands (sorry, Tango, Malvinas) War and that naturally requires one to pull Shipwreck off the shelf.

Mako11 Inactive Member29 May 2017 7:48 p.m. PST

Yep, it's a good set of rules for that.

I added in Clash of Sabres (air rules), in order to do Air/Sea strikes with jets, and it worked quite well, since both use D10s.

Lots of fun, and there are fewer issues with the above concerns, at least for me and my games.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP31 May 2017 8:55 a.m. PST

First, remember you're not playing Harpoon, we're playing a coarse game to have fun with less work. Some people would depreciatively call this "fudging". I don't think there's anything wrong with fudging!

It doesn't matter where you put the missile marker in the next range band. It's just in that range band.

As for third parties, I think this is discussed somewhere, maybe the FAQ, maybe on the mailing list.

Easiest solution: you plunk the missile down immediately adjacent to the firing ship. Now measure the range to the third party that has it's air search radar on and the capacity to fire – that distance determines the range band with respect to the third party. Now look at the line between attacker and target, find the closest point to the third party – what range band is that in? The missile will pass through all those bands, and the third party can fire at the missile in each. You can't fire at the missile after the midway point, too tough to catch a missile. So the range bands to the third party are essentially calculated independently and the third party is limited to one shot per band.

If multiple third parties want to intercept the missile they can, but this reduces their ability to shoot at any missiles flying at them during this set of combat turns.

This allows third parties to do some interception, but not more than authenticity allows.

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