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"How Many Apache Helicopters Do You Need?" Topic

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Action Log

02 Dec 2017 2:15 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from TMP Poll Suggestions board

1,300 hits since 8 May 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian08 May 2017 9:38 p.m. PST

How much is enough?

PrivateSnafu08 May 2017 10:07 p.m. PST

One. Maybe 4 in 6mm on a big table.

Sneakypete Inactive Member08 May 2017 10:10 p.m. PST

In the air? Because if you are asking for in the fleet then an entire battalions worth since their operational readiness rate is so poor.

I would say 2 Air Weapons Team (AWT) (2x AH-64 per AWT) because that is max of what you would be allocated for on a normal mission depending on the priority of efforts.


Mako1108 May 2017 11:12 p.m. PST

4 works for me.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP08 May 2017 11:24 p.m. PST

None. I primarily do American Revolution. But thanks for asking.

GarrisonMiniatures Inactive Member08 May 2017 11:50 p.m. PST

Same for me – I do Ancients. But then I wouldn't seriously feel that a question on the Cold War to Ultramodern boards would really apply to me anyway.

So please ignore this post.

GurKhan09 May 2017 1:01 a.m. PST

Same for me I do Ancients.

And you'll see when those rows of dust-clouds settle
There are helicopters on the walls of Troy

YouTube link

Please feel free to ignore this post as well :-)

Chokidar Inactive Member09 May 2017 3:01 a.m. PST

More than you have got…

Personal logo Striker Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2017 3:15 a.m. PST

I have 6.

Gennorm09 May 2017 5:20 a.m. PST


Jozis Tin Man Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2017 6:03 a.m. PST

Depends. For Picoarmor cold war gaming I have 2 OH-58's and 4 AH-1's. For my SBCT Rifle Company project, maybe 2. For something like Hind Commander, at least a company's worth.

Disco Joe Inactive Member09 May 2017 6:09 a.m. PST

In the right scale I would say 2 or 3.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP09 May 2017 6:41 a.m. PST

Depends on the tactics.

Mako1109 May 2017 7:32 a.m. PST

Of course, I already have them, so…….

Legion 409 May 2017 7:58 a.m. PST

As many as you can get !!!!

When in doubt. Have the 64s hover behind some cover/concealment. Like trees, a ridge, low structures, etc.

Then when the OPFOR comes into range.

Pop-up from behind cover. Blast them with Hellfires, etc.

Go back behind cover. Maybe move to another covered/concealed position …

And repeat …

Rod I Robertson Inactive Member09 May 2017 8:33 a.m. PST

Need? None. Have? In 6mm 21 AH-64 Apaches, 13 OH-58 Kiowas and 4 command Blackhawks. In 15mm just one AH-64.

Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

Zamboni Inactive Member09 May 2017 9:12 a.m. PST

The Apache strike on Karbala in 2003 used 30 Apaches.

Naturally, you'll need minis for an Iraqi tank division on the other side.

And an 8x8 sand table for Karbala…

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2017 9:14 a.m. PST

Hmm, Apache Gyrocopters for VSF….

That will give them a boost in the Plains Wars!

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2017 12:51 p.m. PST

Well a helicopter would make it easier to get around, but the fuel prices would kill me and hellfire missiles and 30mm chain guns would be overkill.

Legion 409 May 2017 2:00 p.m. PST

The Apache strike on Karbala in 2003 used 30 Apaches.
Those were from the 1st CAV Div., IIRC. Higher HQ(?) didn't SEADS the flight routes. Fear of too much collateral damage. IIRC, all the 64s were hit by Russian made Iraqi AAA guns.

So much for following standard procedures, that work … frown

30mm chain guns would be overkill
No such thing as overkill … just KIA'd enemy and those that are awaiting their turns to be KIAs … wink

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2017 2:26 p.m. PST

For skirmish gaming one.


Raynman Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member10 May 2017 12:36 p.m. PST

As many as the sky can hold!

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP10 May 2017 12:46 p.m. PST

hellfire missiles and 30mm chain guns would be overkill.

How else are you going to keep those new puppies in line?

mckrok10 May 2017 2:39 p.m. PST

Doctrinally, the attack battalions were intended to be committed by battalion or company.

Legion 410 May 2017 2:42 p.m. PST

I think that is what the 1st Cav did at Karbala … Too bad they didn't use SEADS …

Lion in the Stars10 May 2017 6:18 p.m. PST

I've seen some proposals to give the Div Cav (er, excuse me, the RSTA squadron) two platoons of Apaches, 8 birds.

SouthernPhantom11 May 2017 7:40 p.m. PST

That may work. I'd be interested in seeing how they would be employed, and how many UAVs they would be teamed with.

In response to the original question: all of them. I settle for no less than complete rotary-wing domination!

Legion 412 May 2017 6:37 a.m. PST

Air Assault !!!! Yeah !!!! thumbs up

Lion in the Stars13 May 2017 2:32 a.m. PST

Ah, now that I found that paper (Organizing for the Future: The Army's Objective Force Cavalry Squadron by Major Marty M. Leners, United States Army, link ) again, it's 2x troops of Apaches, each with 2x platoons of 4x birds and a UAV platoon. This UAV was supposed to be something smaller than a Predator (so no paved runway required), current equivalent would be an RQ7 Shadow. A single Shadow system is 22 troops in 4ish Humvees (each with a trailer) and 3 operational drones with one spare. Gives a total of 16 Apaches and 3 UAVs per brigade, as part of the organic RSTA squadron, though I'm hoping that there would be more drones available.

And it looks like Army Combat Aviation Brigades have enlarged to a battalion of 24 Apaches plus a recon squadron of 24 Apaches, 12 RQ7 Shadows, and a company of MQ1C Gray Eagles (I think that's 12 birds and 5 ground control stations). The MQ1s, being a derivative of the Predator, need to have a paved runway or road to fly from, but everything else is rough-field capable.

uglyfatbloke13 May 2017 1:31 p.m. PST

SWMBO has two (28mm) …my guys get shot up a lot….

Lion in the Stars14 May 2017 3:42 a.m. PST

@Ugly Fat Bloke: Spectre Miniatures has some AA guns… ZPU-4 and ZSU-23. Should help keep the Air menace down. link and scroll all the way down to the bottom.

uglyfatbloke14 May 2017 4:30 a.m. PST

Ah-ha! That's what's needed!

SouthernPhantom14 May 2017 5:29 p.m. PST

That document is from 2001, and most of the proposed equipment no longer exists, sadly, but I believe that the proposal is sound. It would place an Air Cav troop at the BCT level, lessening reliance on the divisional CAB. I don't see it ballooning maintenance costs either- active-duty divisions already have the infrastructure for their CAB, and every single state's ARNG has at least one AASF to operate a company or more of assault or air ambulance UH-60s. The Air Cav troop would just be co-located with these existing assets.

Anything that gets aerial recon and CAS closer to the guys on the ground is a great plan in my book.

Lion in the Stars18 May 2017 4:06 a.m. PST

@Southern Phantom: yeah, it's an old document, but I snagged it for ideas for a scifi TO&E. Mix a bit of that, the Stryker Brigade, and the old FCS concepts along with some new toys and you get a pretty cool plausible near-future force that still makes sense if you bump up to grav tanks.

Kinda surprised that some of the ideas haven't been rolled out yet, to be honest. Like the Air Cav troops, complete with the UAV platoons.

Oh, and that should be 16 Apaches with 6 UAVs in the Squadron. It's 8 Apaches and 3 UAVs per troop. Gotta stop trying to do math at 0230!

capt jimmi Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2017 3:14 a.m. PST

Hahaha! …"How Many Apache Helicopters Do You Need?"

.. how many you got ?

ScoutJock19 May 2017 1:35 p.m. PST

At least two, it would be highly unusual to see gunships operating solo.

Amalric Inactive Member20 May 2017 1:59 p.m. PST

I have one for 20mm skirmish but haven't gotttn around to fielding it yet.

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