"BT Shadow Hawk: Dud or Fang of the Sun?" Topic

I've been playing Battletech off and on for centuries.. uh, decades! My favorite mech is the awesome Warhammer and I put that machine on the board every chance I get.

However two years ago I played in a BT game at Historicon that was set during the Periphery Uprising. I was a little late getting to the game so I was assigned to the SLDF and was given… a Shadow Hawk in the 2H configuration.

If you've played the game as long as I have you know the Shad I'm talking about. 1 AC 5, 1 ML, 1 SRM2, and 1 LRM5. 5/8/3 movement with 12 heat sinks and 152 points of armor.

I actually had a lot of fun playing with the Shad in that game. I was basically IGNORED. My mech was like a ghost. I went where I wanted to and was barely noticed or shot at. It was like I had some sort of stealth type of shield. My opponents would look at my Shad, and something else, and went for something else. I spent a nice chunk of the game harassing a Victor dumping shot after shot at him. He ignored me until it was too late and even then it was a kick I threw that killed him.

At the end of the game I was the only other mech on my side that was functional and I had only sustained minor damage. My side was wiped out, but I survived and had two battlemech kills to my name. Not a bad outing eh?

The Victor player complemented me on my play of the Shad, but pointed out, slightly sour-grapes style, that I only did it because I was in a pretty worthless mech that was low on the target list. Very true I'm sure.

However, I have to say, it was a fun mech to play. It's very mobile, can't really overheat if you use it right, it has a fair throw weight of 8 points of damage at most range categories, and has a solid physical attack. Toss in the armor and you have a very forgiving mech for new pilots. Plus there is that "je ne sais quoi", like plot armor, that protects the 2H in many fights where the enemy is more apt to ignore you and not take your Shad very seriously.

Plus..

The new 2H model is dead sexy!

I love it! I have two now and want a full lance.

I can see myself taking a couple in a company scale game because of that "plot armor" that allows them to be ignored. They can chip off some armor, get in close, and kick really hard! That's got to be worth something, right?

Anyway, what's your take on the Shadow Hawk 2H. Is it the awesome "Fang of the Sun" (snickers), or is it a delta-uniform-delta? Or perhaps it's useful after all?

Finally, if Grayson Death Carlyle piloted the thing then just how bad could it be?

The Shadow Hawk has never really been my favorite mech, all those weapons are light hits, and they are all over on range bands. I prefer weapons that "go together" and deliver more damage (you have 19 max points of damage, if you hit with everything and get max missiles… good luck with, or having everything hit at the same range).

On the other hand… its mobile, good armor for the weight, fairly cool, so not so bad.

On the Gripping Hand, I like force composition to NOT be min/max designs…. its good to throw in some stuff that is not perfect, if all players are gaming that way. That is why my Liao force has Urbanmechs… not because I like the things, but because Liao uses them and not every mech should be perfect.

Congrats on the Victor kill. I just played yesterday in a brawl scenario, fought it out from a Banshee BNC-3S against an Annihilator ANH-1A, ended the game face down with 2 engine hits, cored on every location except left leg and head, and forced shut down… avoided the ammo explosions. The Annihilator was down to 1 AC10 and 1 Med Laser, fallen, with about as many cored locations as me, but not "quite" out of the game. Neither of us won the scenario :)

Chalfant

I'm on the side of "Shad only to be taken if you cannot fill out the roster with something better…" side of things. While armor is OK for a 55 tonner, and the jump capacity is adequate but welcome, it simply doesn't have the throw-weight to be competative, with too many weapon bands & not enough throw weight at any of them. Personally at that weight band the Wolverine is a better mech, with a better weapons selection.

Damon.

I've never played Battletech, but that won't stop me from offering this comment: If the weapons in an AFV's weapons suite have different effective ranges, it is probably meant to be deployed as part of a unit of several of the same AFV.

It is a mech that shines when it is coupled with something that blows big chunks out of their opponent. I find the most luck using it with something like a Hunchback or even an Enforcer. Even better if she is coupled with a Griffin who is cutting 10 point chunks off an enemy mech with its PPC from the same ranges as your LRM and AC-5.

Your opponent is going to be forced to deal with the those mechs that are up in their face as the most important threat. This allows the Shadowhawk to do what it does best… crit seeking.

Then even if the Hunchie or Enforcer does go down the Shadowhawk can then close to deliver devastating punches and kicks to finish an opponent off.

Her biggest drawback is her reliance on too many ballistic weapons. It can turn the Shadowhawk into a firecracker early on if targeted or worse if you are playing a campaign limiting your firepower to conserve ammo for later games.

The Shadowhawk is not flashy but I still like her as a solid build from the 3025 range.

Disagree that the Shad is good at crit seeking. The aformentioned Wolverine not only does it better with a similar weapons loadout (SRM6 is 3 times better at crit seeking as an SRM 2), but has better jump capacity as well.

As for Oberlindes Sol LIC comment, I'd not be impressed by a lance of Shads either; the way Battletech works, IMHO, is that it favors mechs that specialize, either in long range with some short range weapons for self defence, or short range with a single long range weapon to answer enemy fire. the SHad just doesn't do well in either of these scenarios IMHO. Even the Dervish is better!

Damon.

I guess he wasn't so worthless after all :-) Nice work.

Dud

It's small hodge-podge weapons relegates it's role to light 'mech killer. You could use a cheaper frame to do that.

Story-wise and image, it has always been 'all-that-and-a-bag-of chips'.

I haven't played BT in a while, but maybe it's OP skill that helped not so much the mech itself?

Another mech that performs similarly in my experience is the Hermes II, it kind of hovers on the periphery of the fight, snipes away with the AC/5 and occasionally can sneak behind a heavier mech to hit it with a flamer and a good kick.

The Shawk performs similarly, snipe with AC and LRM, or get to 4-9 hexes it can do some damage, especially if the target already took some hits.

It's a very decent team player for 3025, not very flashy or dangerous, but in the right hands it can do some damage. On the other hand it's not a front line fighter, try to duke it out with the enemy and you're quickly going into a world of pain, especially against the more potent heavies or mechs that can keep up or even have better mobility. An Assassin or a Phoenix Hawk can seriously ruin your day if you are not careful.

One of my favorite stories from our early '90s Battletech/Mechwarrior campaign was during a city fight. One of the players in the mercenary group had a Shadow Hawk, and there was an enemy Mech on top of a building firing down at the good guys. So, the Shad driver jumped up on the building behind the bad guy and pushed him over the side. Not a shot fired, but definitely a kill.
BWW

guess he wasn't so worthless after all :-) Nice work.

The Victor pilot was a good fellow and we joked around during the game. I know he was annoyed that the Shad finally took him down, with major assists from other SLDF mechs of course.

I guess that fight changed my mind about the Shad. It is a decent mech if you use it right.

Not a Battletech player, but it seems to me that any reliance on "plot armor" in any game, being that "no one will attack your 'worthless' unit," relies on another player a) not noticing your tactic b) agreeing that the threat is insignificant c) knowing enough about the unit to assume "b" is true. All it takes is one opponent not complying with the supposed "plot" to ruin your day.

That's the nice thing about the Shad. With almost 10 tons of armor it can really take punishment. Tossing hurt the Shad's way means that it isn't clobbering one of my other mechs. Still a bit of a win.

I'd really rather have better guns, I don't like the scattered range bands.

But then again, I normally drive Warhammers. Or a Microhammer, if I'm in a bizarre mood (microhammer is basically 2x PPCs on a 7/11 chassis and enough armor to fill out 35 tons).

The Shadow Hawk is a perfectly viable skirmisher in the 3025 timeframe, only slightly let down by the less-than-stellar jump rating (well that and the AC/5 is a marginal weapon but lots of Mechs have that problem). It's not my favorite ride but it will often get the job done provided the job is NOT 'stand toe to toe against someone with bigger guns'.

Not a Battletech player, but it seems to me that any reliance on "plot armor" in any game, being that "no one will attack your 'worthless' unit," relies on another player a) not noticing your tactic b) agreeing that the threat is insignificant c) knowing enough about the unit to assume "b" is true. All it takes is one opponent not complying with the supposed "plot" to ruin your day.

The nice thing with the Shadowhawk though is that it is still tough and fast enough that if they decide they want you dead you can make them work for it.

-Will

It's one of the classic 55ton trio, perhaps the weakest, but I'd use it.

Back when I played BT we focused on 3025, and the SH did indeed come in handy. A good drop kick could really ruin your day.
We always tried to use lance and company composition that played up to the fluff, rather than make our own "uber" companies like most people do to try to min/max or get the advantage. (We had the same thing with using the Urbanmechs…) This meant that we often had "subpar" mechs in our units that we had to either deal with or learn to use effectively.
As noted above, most people forget to team units up, and instead try to go one-on-one all too often. I never minded using a SH because I knew I could get it together with 1 or 2 other mechs and cause some trouble!

We didn't do the uber-units either. The unit commander of our mercenary group had a Vulcan as his family inherited mech. Our campaign started in 3025 and was almost to the Fourth Succession War when everyone started getting real careers; that killed the campaign pretty quick.

One thing about the Mercenary's Handbook back then: Keeping all those forms was almost a full-time job itself!
BWW

It the whole medium mech syndrome, most players have heavy or assault mechs and are looking for the big kills. Or at the very least killing the nuisance that light mechs become. In the end most ignore the very real threat a medium mech can be.

Even the Wolverine has a lack of real firepower with the AC/5 and SRM 6 and some medium lasers. Players usually go with the lasers more than anything else on that mech.

With medium mechs I'd rather go with a Centurion, it at least has real firepower for 50 tons.

I haven't played BT in a while, but maybe it's OP skill that helped not so much the mech itself?

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm an old BT player, but very rusty. I played pretty cautious by sticking to the flanks and keeping cover in play and tried to limit my exposure. However I was able to fire most of my weapons every turn.

The thing that was really going for me was that there are other targets out there that were better choices, usually. I know the Victor passed on easier shots at me to go for mission objectives (the vehicle carrying the prisoner they were trying to free) or more capable mechs/vehicles. I don't blame him there, but it did cost him in the end as I was able, with quite a bit of help from other mechs, to wear him down to where I can engage him with a physical attack. He failed the piloting check caused by the kick, fell down a hill, and landed on a damaged torso… one unlucky crit roll later and he went "boom"!

The other mech was a damaged light which I hit with an alpha strike and caused an ammo explosion.. "boom"! Very satisfying.

I will point out that I went right to Wally's Basement and found a Victor for sale and purchased it. You've got to love that monster.

Being a Davion player I tend to stick with Enforcers as my medium mech of choice, so to me the Shad is very poorly armed. That's 18 points at long range compared to maybe 8. That's a 2:1+ damage in favor of the Enforcer, and the Enforcer is five tons lighter. The Shad is just a bit faster on the ground and a little better armored.

The Shadow Hawk is great using the Solaris VII rules. The variety of weapons and the way heat works allow it to fire almost continuously within any range band but them again, that is only using the Solaris VII rules.