"A new war gamer could use some insight" Topic

Hello

I happened across this forum and after lurking a while I decided to join!

A little background about me. I'm a PC gamer, but not heavy into the WW2 genre, although it's a topic I enjoy very much. I recently played some ww2 games and I enjoyed them thoroughly. One was a miniatures game, Chain of Command, and the other was a board game, Conflict of Heroes. I dabble in ww2 pc games, but not much.

I'm moving away from PC games and I'd really like to jump into the table top gaming world, however, I'm not sure where to start….board games or miniatures.

I played CoC on a huge 8x4 table. It was pretty awesome, but I just do not have that kind of space OR time to make all those little trees, shrubs, roads. I do, however, have about a 2x2 or 3x3 space to work with and I thought 6mm would work for that area. I'm not really looking to spend much time or money on terrain, but have no idea where to start with this.

The Conflict of Heroes game was fun too. I found the combat mechanics to be more "meatier" than Chain of Command, but I also found myself enjoying pushing mini's around more than counters. I've seen on BBG some people use mini's with their board games, so that might be an idea, but it looked kinda of off to me.

So, here I am, asking the board game and mini's folks here what they think?

Is there a set of rules, board game or miniatures that maybe aren't overly complicated, easy to set up but have really nice detailed combat rules?

Being new to ww2 gaming I guess I don't really know where to start, so I thought I'd get some suggestions from folks here and maybe it will help me decide what it is I really want.

Thanks

You really should try Crossfire.

Memoir 44 is a good starter board game with minis
link

You can check out the rules by Two Hour Wargames by downloading a free set of the basic rules to try out the mechanics. If you like them you can purchase "Nuts!" which is the full WWII rules. Nuts! is man to man combat and is also designed for solo play.

An important point--with whom are you going play? Do you have an opponent, or solo? Is there a club nearby?

If you have an opponent or club, find out what they play before making your own choice.

Also, do you want to play historical scenarios? Pick up games? Or maybe tournament competition?

Those decisions will also help shape your game choice.

Who do you normally play against?
What attracts you to tabletop miniature games?

If you like the models and want some, what scale?, what can you or are willing to afford?

There is more futility and nebulous areas in tabletop game, hexes define what terrain you are in etc.

For starters, I'd recommend crossfire- smaller actions, fewer models, more decisions to make in a game, you learn to use cover…more fun overall. Imo 😜

Chain of Command can be played on a smaller table say 4x4 perhaps a bit smaller. It also depends on what scale you are playing.

A better question is what do other gamers like to play in your area? Having an opponent or 2 is important unless you plan on playing solitaire.

If you liked Chain, use 10 or 15mm figures, treat each range as double centimeters (so 5" becomes 10 cm) and you can play on a more modest space.

FUBAR is free, and quite good.

I would suggest starting in 15mm (roughly 1/100 scale). The figures are big enough to "look cool" but small enough (and cheap enough). Note: If budget is a concern look at 1/72 plastic soldiers – even cheaper! Either way you can change rules without changing figures.

Memoir 44 is an easy way to get started too – it comes with 2D terrain that you can add to over time. For example, pick up some cheap trees from Ebay. You can pick up a couple dozen for $20 USD or so.

A lot of terrain like rivers, roads, and fields can be made for dirt cheap: paint, glue, and maybe a little fabric.

For buildings you can start with free paper models that you download, print and assemble.

In short, you can get a *very* nice looking game on the cheap with a little time and patience.

Feel free to ask here about specific issues: like how to make trees or buildings.

Memoir 44 is a great gateway system.

I am looking to do Conflict of Heroes using micro armour. Presently I am experimenting with 2" or 3" hexes. This gives a game board of 2 ft x 2.5 ft with 2" hexes and one and a half times that at 3".

I am looking at ways to enlarge the existing game boards, photo copy and enlarge, build 3D fixed terrain boards, use a sheet I have with 2" hexes and using felt, tape, lichen to recreate the existing game boards. I was invited to a 6 mm game of seven years war the other weekend and got a lot of ideas on effective terrain creation.

I am just back into gaming after a 25 year hiatus and the CoH series mechanics blows away anything else out there. The selection of details like buildings is so much greater now, plus the continued expansion of the selection of armour and infantry from existing manufacturers covers anything needed.

I have seen a few images on here of larger scale (15 mm, 25+ mm) games and they seem "crowded". Micro armour gives an excellent look and feel but doesn't require an excessively large area.

Stephen

I have played every form of wargaming imaginable and I believe that the most important thing to consider is whether you'll be able to find opponents. You might discover the most wonderful game in the world and not be able to find a game. So I would start by asking your friends if they would be willing to play a miniatures game and which game would they like to try, and if you can't find someone who will truly commit you can call the gaming stores within reasonable driving distance and ask which miniatures games are being played there. I have found that the most widely played games are "Flames of War", which is a WW II miniatures game at about 15mm, and the games from Games Workshop, which are fantasy and sci-fi miniatures games. You may, or may not find opponents for all of the other miniatures games.

If you didn't like COH and you found the mixture of boards and minis to be "off" you probably won't like "Memoir '44". I would be as honest with myself as possible about what level you want to game at. That is "man-to-man", squad level, platoon level, or operational scale with regiments and divisions. I found operational scale games to be kind of dry. I enjoy squad and platoon level as in COH and GMT Games "Combat Commander" series.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestion. To answer a few questions….

I will be playing solo only.
WW2 era
IF I go miniatures, it would be 6mm

I like the cinematic look of mini's over counters, but I know with mini's the cost will be much greater.

Making terrain is not high on my priority list as I would do cheap felt terrain.

My thing is I want some nice detailed combat rules. I don't know enough about war games in general to know which offers more realism….mini based games or board games. I know this is a hard question to answer.

I've seen pictures on BGG of people using mini's on board games….it looks unnatural! :)

I would recommend "Memoir '44" also. The turns are unpredictable and you never know what will happen next. The cards on you hand give you a choice of 3-5 actions that you can choose from on your turn. The dice take care of retreats w/o resorting to cumbersome morale checks. It has terrain hexes that you put down on the basic hex map to make the terrain for the battle.

Welcome out of the shadows cap'n!

Seems like you are moving towards 6mm figures as space is at a premium. There are lots of manufacturers out there and plenty of chaps who sell 6mm figures through the marketplace. Also check E-Bay, Bartertown and Lead Adventure Forum, for painted figures and terrain.
In that scale, terrain is easy to make and you can have a fairly large battle on a small space.

Our group uses Rapid Fire rules which is designed for 20mm figures but could easily be re-scaled to 6mm. Companies for infantry and platoons for tanks. The battalion is the overall command unit. There are a number of scenario books available and lots of support on the web.

I guess I should also state that I'm looking more for 1 tank = 1 tank and 1 inf stand = 1 squad

I cut my teeth on GHQ and CinC WWII microarmor. Beautiful little models, easy to paint, easy to play 1:1 for vehicles and squads, fits on small tables and easy terrain.

Here is a GHQ example: link

Card stock terrain:
link

The big thing is what you mean by "detailed". Are you looking for shot-by-shot resolution and accumulating damage, or just info on the target's combat effectiveness? I find that the more streamlined rules often feel more nuanced than those that track different multiple different stats.

For minis, I game in 6mm, with a 1:1 model ratio and one 2"x1" stand per squad. I can fit one company apiece with supports easily on a 3'x3'. Two will get cozy, but you could probably fit a battalion if you represent a squad with only 3-5 miniatures on a 1" base.

The visual appeal definitely beats board games, and terrain can creep up on you; a pack of model railroading trees goes a long way.

Not really "tabletop", but it could fit as an intro. They promised to put a "solitair" scenario in:

Columbiagames: Combat Infantry: World War 2 tactical block game
link

Otherwise I would certainly look at rules to offer interesting solitair games. FOG and outmaneuvering are a problem for solo games.

"I guess I should also state that I'm looking more for 1 tank = 1 tank and 1 inf stand = 1 squad"

Since you liked Chain of Command you should look into "I Ain't Been Shot Mum" AKA IABSM it's the scale you are looking for and written by the same guy who wrote Chain of Command and can and is played in 6mm.

You wrote:
"Is there a set of rules, board game or miniatures that maybe aren't overly complicated, easy to set up but have really nice detailed combat rules?"

Personally, I feel that's somewhat contradictory. I would recommend Bob Cordery's Portable Wargame for playable, easily adapted rules, but I doubt you'd regard the combat resolution as "really nice detailed" rules…

Get over to board game geek for a look at various rules. CoH has a dedicated solo expansion. It is card driven for the "opponent" who is referred to as the AI. Very popular. I am still familiarizing myself with the basic game and have found and recruited a few opponents but have the solo for down the line.

Stephen

Blitzkrieg commander ????

So I guess no one is recommending Advanced Squad Leader at this point?

Yeah, you're right. Save it for later, when captaincold69 is completely hooked.

here is a free set of hybrid boardgame miniatures rules. I've used it to get people interested in WW2 gaming: Tigers at Minsk

link

I would usually advise anyone to find opponents first.
Are you sure about playing solo?
If you find a wargames club, you might be able to just join in games and try them out without supplying anything.
( I often put games on and supply everything. )
Other clubs have terrain ( and tables ) at least.

I would say 3x3 is very small.

Your preferences seem to point much more towards computer gaming than miniatures.
They can be as complicated as you like internally, you just interact with the results of all those calculations and whatnot.
They fit on your computer, so space isn't an issue.
No opponent required – and or with some you can play by email.

I would suggest that you start small as it sounds like you are not too sure what you really want to model/play' I would suggest considering small at first. Are there other 'gamers close to you? Would you consider starting small? Would you consider playing games solitaire?

As far ae the size of the table I use a piece of thick cardboard three by four feet reinforced by laying one by twos on the kitchen table!If you can spare the room take two 3x4,s and you have either 3x8 or a 4x6 area, which is a great battle field
.

You can find a 3x4 corrugated or a 3x4 fiberboard Display board at Micheal's or Wal-Mart. I reinforced the folds with white glue and scotch packing tape-makes a great battlefield.

There are a lot of good games out there. While I really enjoy Chain of Command for my WW2 games but Nuts by Two Hour Wargames actually gives a better solo game. It can work for a variety of scales as well.

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions.

I think I'm going to pass on a miniatures game. I don't want to deal with the hassle of making terrain, setting it up and taking it down. So, I'm going to board game route (this also helps with the smaller space I have to play on).

The best way to play in a small area is using geomorphic terrain boards: this is when any roads enter & exit at the same locations on each side of a board (say 2x2) so you can abutt them together to get a battlefield, then rotate them or rearrange them to make another. We successfully did it with micro-armor & had countless games with about 4 boards

@wizbangs

Who makes these geomorphic terrain boards?

You have to make them yourself. Board games like Squad Leader, Panzer Blitz & Panzer Leader used them & you can find those online to use as a guide. We had a few of them when we used to play micro-armor.

Welcome to the hobby.

Reading your posts it would seem a self contained board game is the way to go…. axis and allies or napoleon in Europe are two of my favorites.

Miniature games is all about customization….and the cost can get out of control quickly. I prefer miniature games…