"2mm Horse and Musket Armies Project Update" Topic

Great work. For buildings, I'd like to suggest a windmill. You see them in various battlefields but the are hard to find in smaller scale.
Dale

DaleWill- Thanks! And agreed about the windmill. It's on the list. I'm also going to do bridges of varying length and construction. Buildings are pretty easy for me, as they don't have too many fine details. Plus, at the smaller scales I think that buildings and terrain are almost as important as the figures are.

After following this thread and looking at the link I am getting very interested. It would be nice to have a 2mm world as well as my 6mm world given the size and scope of battles I could create.

However I am a bit of a planner and I am just starting to think about terrain, roads, rivers, organization, painting, basing etc. in a 2mm world so please keep the pictures, information and experiences coming (the pictures in this thread have especially been helpful – the more the better as each one seems to remind me of something else to think about). I will also be keen to get some impressions about the materials these are made of as people start to use these.

DaleWill-
How's this look?

- Forwardmarch
Looks very nice. I saw it in you store and now I'm going to need to place an order!

Dale

Thanks! I put a second version up too. I'll do a few more; they're easier than churches!

Hi
Can anyone advise the best way to paint these please ?
Primers, Paint types etc ?
Thanks

Hi SCW2003- there are two ways I've found to paint the plastic Shapeways uses. The first is to base coat like with a normal model, with regular spray paint. You don't have to do anything different. I tried it myself and it worked great.

Or, you can take advantage of a weird property of the material, and use watered down paint washes to color it. The plastic will instantly take the first color you wash it with. Subsequent washes won't have nearly the same effect. The stuff is very pourous, and once the pores are blocked no more color can get in (this is based on observation; I'm not a materials engineer or chremist!). If you look at the first few pics in this thread you can see how I washed the models with their basic uniform color. Blue for French, green for Russians, grey for Austrians. After that I dry brushed the other colors, then gave the bayonets a watered down black wash with a bit of dish soap; basic magic wash. I think this method is faster and you should give it a try at least once.

The cavalry models you want to ink wash dark brown or grey to begin, then paint the horses and riders, then add some more washes, then highlight over the washes. Make sure you paint the underside of the horses' chins and legs in the front rank; otherwise it'll be really noticable. Finally paint the base green or whatever color, or base how you want.

I use only cheap craft acrylics and they worked fine.

Edit: Also, if you go the wash route, a thin black wash will come out as an uneven grey. Dark grey or a heavy black washbwork bettr.

Thanks for that!
Brilliant i can buy them ready to go
Putting an order together
Thinking of using them with Kallistra hexes for a 3d effect boardgame of Waterloo

How about some round stone tower midmills? Well, never mind, I see you have done some!

SCE2003- Glad to hear it!

Stever- I'll be doing a few more styles in addition to the two already in the shop. A lot of terrain is forthcoming for the range. Amongst other things, I have a really good idea for doing towns that I'll be putting out as soon as I get the chance. I'm actually at the airport right now, about to start a two week vacation. When I get back though I'll be putting out a lot more codes for buildings.

Also, if anyone has any ideas or requests for 2mm buildings, let me know! I can always give it a try. I might try out a Vauban fortress at some point; modular, of course.

I'm actually at the airport right now, about to start a two week vacation.

Well, how selfish ? LOL
Have a good one !!

I don't wish to discourage Fwd Mch Studios from all these good ideas. But be aware that Langton Miniatures do a fine little windmill in 1/1200, and Brigade Models make similar items in 2mm. Also that Magister Militum produce a stupendous Vauban-type fortress in sections in 1/600, but given its very slightly caricatured proportions it would probably serve for several scales.

But FMS: you said 'bridge'. And you have my attention because I have searched without success for something that genuinely corresponds to most real bridges in 18-19c Europe. Miniature hump-backed stone bridges with one/three/more arches are easy to find, but actually the vast majority of everyday bridges weren't like this. Since most bridges have not survived to our time and were unfit for the motor age, the more widespread style has disappeared from view.

For a start they were of wood, hence they got replaced and were frequently destroyed by campaigning armies. The roadbed was flat and rested on trestles raised from piers in the water. Most presumably had a safety barrier running along either side. Closest extant example I can think of is the Pont des Arts in Paris, although this has round iron arches which make it unusually elegant.

Scroll down to the temporary wooden bridge built in 1930 and also the temporary wooden replacement built by French engineers in 1944:
link

Or this one in Lyon, rebuilt in 1890:

Or this, but without the houses built upon it:

Further examples:

link

All you have to do now is create one in 2mm for yourself and 3mm for me! Allow maybe 15mm or more width of roadway to make it usable on the table. And I'm sure an all-purpose crossing like this would be useful to many with
interests from Ancients to ACW and well beyond.

Something for you to think about on holiday …

Laretenue-
I'm going to take a crack at it, great idea! I'm pretty sure I can pull off such a bridge, one way or the other. I might do a few… I have pretty good wifi here, I'll try it out on my laptop later tonite.
It gave me a few other ideas for uncommon troop types as well…

Love this! Where can we buy thee again? Tried "shapeways," couldn't fine 'em. -Never mind. Found them!

Hi guys-
I saw one person already bought a single 20mm infantry code; I'm still talking to Shapeways about the infantry, so that design is not final. Specifically the bayonet tips; I'm doing what I can but be aware I may have to drop the bayonets. The 1:1 scale will remain. I'll keep you guys updated.

Please post really high quality close ups of painted units as soon as you are able to. I know it's an ongoing project and you have real life issues too – but I am chomping at the bit to see just how good these are.

I have long felt 1:1 in 2mm was the way to go.

Hi all-

Just a quick note- I finally reached an understanding with Shapeways regarding the 2mm infantry. They're going to let me keep the bayonet points in slightly modified form. So, the overall look of the figures should be the same. This is a big relief to me, let me tell you, as the individual bayonet points are really key to the entire look. I have final versions of the infantry on the way to my house now, which should arrive on June 6th. As soon as I see that they printed up correctly I'll post here (along with some high quality close-ups!) and give the Ok to start buying them. I also ordered up examples of all of my buildings, windmills and bridges (thus far), and I'll post some painted examples of those as well.

Now that I have a final infantry model, I can move forward with the two-rank and four-rank infantry, which will cover the basics of most of the conflicts in the H&M epoch. Then I can also start knocking out other denominations of infantry: 30mm strips, 60mm strips, etc. The 60mm strips will be useful for using these figures in 1/3 scale battles.

There are other things I need to get around to as well; supply wagons, and some buildings that will work for the ACW and AWI and the Peninsula. I'm also working on a modular castle system, so you can build a fortress (or manor house) as big or small as you want. Eventually I'll get around to a modular Vauban style fortress.

More updates as they come in. I have a lot of figures waiting for me when I get home in two days, so expect some new photos on Memorial Day.

Also, I'll be scaling the buildings up to 3mm, as I think it will fill in some gaps existing that scale.

How early in the Horse and Musket period are you thinking of going. Marlburian or earlier? If you push on into the Pike and Shot period you will definitely have my interest.

Second up how do they look along side Irregular Miniatures 2mm blocks.

Elenderil-
Marlborough was the original idea, although I just did a very successful experiment with pikes and lances. Very do-able. I can do a pike forest where every pike will be individually there, and unsupported, yet still tough enough for shipping and gaming. Pike and shot should be pretty easy to do. I needed pikes to work for the GNW and lancers anyway, and they ended up being much more viable than I anticipated. An army with 25000 pikes would look pretty impressive.

My figures don't look anything at all like Irregulars. They're completely different due to the different production methods.

If you can do pike you could do some amazing things for Ancients!

These are absolutely amazing! I'm just blown away.

The idea of doing 1:1 gaming is incredibly interesting. What rules are people using for this type of thing?

Ancients and medieval will come later on. The Crusades or medeival Spain might make an interesting test case for that period. As would Alexander's wars. Romans would be pretty easy too.

I'm not sure what rules people will use these with. The exact ground scale means they'd work very well with a kriegspiel. I may put on a Black Powder game for the South Bay Wargamers' July minicon, and I'm curious to see how it holds up given the scope of game you can play with these figures. A player could either put together two division sized games very quickly and cheaply, or expand them up to full sized battles with some diligence. I imagine a lot of people will like these for big base games as well: Blucher, VnB, etc.

1:1 Caesar in Gaul would be just epic.

"Big base" games would kill two birds with one stone.

Firstly, it would provide an opportunity for ready made rules to be used.

Secondly, it addresses my problem with 2mm overall.

Moving the darn stuff!

Its very attractive to look at and done in this scale frontage way, quite an education but its an awful lot of individual items to pick up and move. Particularly if you went for a big battle at one to one. One of the reasons I stopped playing 2mm.

It also simplifies measuring range and movement.

I think Blucher stands tricked out with these bases would look really good.

Trajanus-
That's definitely true. The pics above are just to show off a unique feature of the range, aside from their use in more traditional rule systems. I should get some big-base pictures up on the website…

Also, now that all of the infantry are released, along with the new cavalry, the range is very substantially complete for the Napoleonic era, and several other conflicts besides. For that matter, anyone wanting to play Napoleonics at 1/3 scale can now do so, as long as they're willing to snip the artillery strips apart themselves. I'll try to get some models up tonight that will avoid that problem. I'm going to do arty with bicornes, because after seeing the generals I realize it's do-able. I'm also going to try some tricorne arty out. other than that, I really just need the lancers. This doesn't mean I'm done; far from it; I'll be adding a lot more codes as I work on the project, but one could collect an army based on what is in the store now.

The ACW is now do-able in large part, for example. I need to do some covered wagons up for that, actually…

And as stated before, if anyone has any requests, let me know on here or email me.

The idea of individual pikes is interesting and not just for ECW. War gamer Dave I have written ECW rules for 2mm at 1:1 scale as I wanted to have true weapons ranges. Solo play tests went well I just need to tidy them up.

Forward March do you have any images of the pike castings?

Elenderil- I don't have an actual pike model yet. What I have is a very successful French lancer model, which shows me that even long thin pikes are technologically viable at 2mm scale. I only found out because the lances are too big for Napoleonic cavalry, but would make good reiters, pike or lance-bearing cavalry. If a feature like pikes/lances works in one model it's easy to copy on another, different model. I can get a picture up later tonight of the lancers so you'll have an idea what it looks like. It's the 2d iteration after the lancer pic on this thread; its very different, much more robus, and the lances are much longer. If I have some time I'll try to knock out a pike block tonight and put a picture of the render up.

How many men deep was a tercio? Any pictures I can follow?

EDIT: Found one. Ok, I'm excited now. I'm going to try to turn this picture into a useable 3d model tonight.

Ok, I didn't get a chance to whip up the 3d model I promised, but I did manage to get these lancers painted up (with a super, ultra basic 2mm paint job…).

For the record, the model is .7 cm to the top of the lance, which is 21 scale feet. The horse is 6' tall at scale (2mm) so the lance is probably around 15' tall. Too tall for Napoleonic lancers, but the exaggeration might be ok… what do you guys think?

The lances are tough, and in the entire regiment of 450 models not one broke in transit, nor do they seem like they'd break unless stepped on. This plastic is much tougher than "hard plastic" used in Perry or Warlord plastics, and is more flexible as well. I did not have to add a roof to get these guys to ship in one piece, and the model caused no problems at the printers end. All in all this was extremely successful from a technological perspective.

So, the WCW/TYW pikes would look similar to these, but possibly longer… I'll have to do some research. I've seen pike in museums in Europe but I'm not sure if they were tercio pikes or some other sort. These lancers give some idea of what the pike forest would look like. There are about 110 lances in this picture, and a tercio had up to 1000 pike,so imagine a denser, larger footprint. Basically, imagine what my infantry would look like with pikes; that's who the tercios will look (once I get around to designing them…).

Those look fantastic. I'm really digging this whole vibe.

I would love to see an anacients version Romans vs Gauls maybe. I wonder if you could model the Gauls as giant irregular shapes i.e. With a straight line in front whe43 they make contact but with all the stragglers and hangers back behind?

The lancers look good to me. I know you will be working on some buildings. Any plans on some historical buildings? The Granary at Essling. Hougoumont, etc.

Keep up the great work.

Dale

Thanks,
Glad you guys like them. They came out pretty well; I'm not sure trying to force more detail in at 2mm will be worth the time and iteration expenses required. So, I may just shorten the lance a bit and give them the full squadron//company/section/guidon treatment that I've been using of late.

Wargamer Dave- I was thinking about Romans and Gaul the other day. Thats a good idea for the Germans- and easy to do! A disorganized mob base for broken units is a cool idea too. Hmm… I'd need some loose order cavalry as well…

DaleWill- I really need to get on that sort of thing. I have a basic Essling grainery model I'm working on (basically done, but I need to order a proof) and my L-shaped houses are based on the buildings on the Marchefd. Essling is about two feet long at my scale, mostly one story houses and garden-plots according to the period military maps I've seen. Pretty easy to do. I've been thinking that Aspern/Essling would make a really good convention battle to show off this scale.

From a marketing perspective I really need to do the Waterloo buildings…. they'd be pretty easy.

I'm thinking your French lancers would work as ECW Scottish lancers .

I think so; the lancers would work for just about any lance armed cavalry. I'm going to try to get some pike done tonight. I've been busy with a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff for the miniature line over the last few days. More updates will be forthcoming!

Hi FMS I was looking on your Shapeways store but couldn't see the pike and shot blocks or the French lancers. Are these not available yet? If I have just missed seeing them could you post a link please?

link

Hi Elenderil- they are on the second page of the store.
I've been neglecting the store a bit due to school demands but will be trying to tidy things up a bit soon, starting with the infantry…

Regards,
FMS

They are showing as not for sale at the moment.

Big changes to the line coming.
Major overhaul on all the figures.
Huge improvements.
More news coming soon . . .