"Attila and the Huns: What did they look like? " Topic

I mean physical traits.

OK, descendants of Jurgens and other Steppe warriors of China/Mongolia.

But by the time of Atilla, were they obviously Asian origin in terms of features? Were they more Iranian? Darker skinned Slavic looking?

The Magyars seemed to be depicted as definite Asian looking, but their descendants in Hungary dont show it.

Were they really mongrols, having a generic look of a mix of Asian/Iranian/Slavic/Gothic traits?

Did Atilla look like Gerard Butler?

Lessons for animal domestication:

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Useful article including: 'The DNA variation observed at key genes revealed a large diversity of coat coloration patterns within Scythian horses, including bay, black, chestnut, cream and spotted animals.' – so that's a good tip for painting Scythian horses.

I mean physical traits.

OK, descendants of Jurgens and other Steppe warriors of China/Mongolia.

But by the time of Atilla, were they obviously Asian origin in terms of features? Were they more Iranian? Darker skinned Slavic looking?

The Magyars seemed to be depicted as definite Asian looking, but their descendants in Hungary dont show it.

Were they really mongrols, having a generic look of a mix of Asian/Iranian/Slavic/Gothic traits?

Did Atilla look like Gerard Butler?

I got bugged…

The pointy heads might have set them apart, somewhat…

Smokey ,

I'm trying to remember a forensics book on that very subject.

This might be close to what they looked like when they first migrated into the Volga region and defeated the Alans (340?):

However, when they defeated Hermanaric and the Goths c370s, they began mixing with their allies and the captured women from subject peoples.

Their original Turkic DNA quickly began to incorporate that of the Sarmatians, Alans, Gepids, Goths, Slavs, etc. They did however continue with face scarification and cranial manipulation for several generations after that.

So, by the time Attila came along, there was quite a lot of variation among those who still called themselves Huns. But, despite all the genetic variants, they still continued many of their original customs, dress and tactics.

Those of royal blood tried to marry from within their original Turkic stock, and there's even evidence of DNA from women brought over by emissaries from China.

Let me see if I can find the title of that book for you.

Dan

So he could have looked like Gerard Butler?

Gerard Butler? I doubt it. Lol.

From what I remember, his lineage goes back all the way to one of the kings that fought Ermanaric.

Facial reconstruction of a modified female skull from that early period (370s), while they were still in Russia/Kazakhstan:

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And those were the families who tried to stick to the original stock for legitimate heirs. They sired many mixed children from concubines, of course. But Attila himself must have been very Turkic, from Central Asian stock (not the Turks you see in modern Turkey today).

So Attila probably looked very close to today's Uzbeks, Siberians or Native Americans. The description by one of the Roman delegations also seems to support that:

"The only extant description on Attila's appearance is that of Priscus: 'short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with gray; and he had a flat nose and a swarthy complexion, showing the evidences of his origin'. Attila's physical appearance was most likely that of an Eastern Asian, Mongol or Turkic."
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Also:

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Dan
PS. Check this,out:
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Though Bronson was not genetically Turkic, he could pass for people with Turkic DNA in Central Asia (like Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan or even Siberia):

That just shows how there are incredibly diverse physical traits even within a single unrelated genetic group.

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Just look at all the different facial features among Uzbeks:

Dan

I have to disagree, Smokey. Some years ago while watching a Hungarian movie on TV I was struck by the distinctly Asiatic features of one of the actors. When the credits rolled at the end of the film I was delighted to see that his 'Christian' name was… Attila! A scan of the credits of any Hungarian movie will reveal that it's still a very common boys' name in Hungary.

Based on his facial features, for many years I was under the impression that Charles Bronson, like Anthony Quinn, was Mexican or Latino. It seems likely he's descended from the Lithuanian Tartar community.

It is no wonder it was a common name in Hungary, Henry. The area was the Hungarian seat of power. That only shows that the Huns settled there.

As a side note, most Turks believe Atilla was a Tartar.

Henry,

You are absolutely right. Bronson's father was descended from Lipka Tatars, a Turkic people.

I know that tall Mr. Jack Palance was part Pole, but I kinda like his portrayal of Attila:

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Dan

If any US actor was qualified to play Attila or, for that matter Ghengis Khan, it was Bronson.

What about lee Van Cleef?

The Magyars are often depicted as Asian looking, but by the 10th Century, they could have been Slavik looking?

Aren't modern day Hungarians kinda loaded with Magyar blood?

Like most such things, there is debate about this, but it seems that there was little mixing of Magyars and Slavs for a long time. When the Magyars moved into modern Hungary there doesn't seem to have been much of a slavic population there.

No connection between Huns and Hungary- the similarity in names is pure coincidence. Hungarians call their country magyar orszag- Magyar Country. According to the Genome project, and other DNA testing, modern Hungarians are exactly the same as all their neighbours- despite what popularist politicians may tell you. Having lived there for many years, there is little difference facially between Hungarians, Slovakians, Romanians etc. Culturally and politically there are differences, but not genetically.

Which begs the question, of course, at what point does a group cease depending upon it's genetic make up for identity and instead begins to rely on it's cultural for identity?

This is like asking what Americans look like.
Then you show pictures of Charlton Heston, Shaquille O'Neill, Peter Dinklage…

So, basically, just your generic mid-Asian boy band.

Parzival said,

So, basically, just your generic mid-Asian boy band.

Super Junior Rules! KPOP Forever!

According to HaT Industry's "1/72" scale figures, the Huns were over six feet tall…

Hungary is certainly regionally linguistically distinctive… and what about that Asiatic Atilla in the movie?

How about Gerry Lopez? He could have played a Hun of strong Altai (non-Anatolian Turkic) blood, meaning before they began intermingling with Europeans in the 5th century, or perhaps a later one from the noble families that were still concerned about Hunnic lineage:

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Dan

A scan of the credits of any Hungarian movie will reveal that it's still a very common boys' name in Hungary.

Years ago I taught a basic Aikido class. One of my students was a recent immigrant from Hungary with that name.

I take pride in the fact that I can say "I taught martial arts to Attila the Hun."

How prevalent was the practice of skull-binding?

I recall seeing a documentary which said some Germanic vassal tribes of the Huns started to take up the same practice.

An example of skull binding on a statue from Khaltchayan Reception Hall, Yuezhi north Bactria, 50 BC-50 AD

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Leaving aside the issue of skull binding (which seemed to have been more prevalent amongst females) your average Hun in the early to mid 5th century would have looked much like a Roman.
Most of his weapons, armour and equipment would either have come from Roman armouries or provided by the tribute paid by Constantinople for the Huns to keep the peace.
The fur hats and Mongolian appearance of Hun miniatures may be appropriate for the Huns when they made their first appearance in the west but not after the 370s

Fur cloaks though, possibly- Ammianus writes about those in the 380's. In an old thread around 2006 we conjectured that the field-mice skins were in fact sable skins and that the Huns were rather more flash than we had previously thought.