"Modern Israeli TO&E" Topic

I've been looking for information for years. The IDF is my favorite army in the world and I am so sick and tired of countless hours of frustration not being able to find the information I need that I am about ready to just dump all of my Israeli garbage and give up on them forever. I cannot believe in current year that we don't have a single person saying definitively how many and what type of vehicles are in an armored brigade.

I've read that there are 3 merkava IV per platoon. 3 platoons per company + 2 Hq merkava IV. 3 companies per battalion for a total of 35 merkava IV. 3 battalion per brigade.

But armor brigades include a support battalion that has a mortar battery, recce company, and a signals company. Based on information I've seen I think the mortar battery is 4 pieces of 81 or 120mm in m113 carriers. I have no effing clue what is in the recce company. Do they drive hummers, jeeps, namers? Why isn't this information available? Why do we know more about our enemy north korea than we do our ally Israel? How much longer do I have to suffer without this information before I start hating the IDF out of spite?

WTF is in an infantry brigade? All I can tell is that they are probably 4 namer per platoon with 3 squads of 9 men and hq. 3 platoon per company and 3 company per battalion. I have no idea if this information is correct or current.

IDF recently considered reorganization. All merkava 1 and 2 retired. Going to retire – Cobra, M113, Achzarit, any artillery guns that aren't M109, F-15, F-16. I read that it was considered going to smaller tank units of 2x3 merkava IV and 1 hq. But I also read that they were removing the 3rd company of every battalion, adding it back in as reserve, and then adding a infantry support company with the recce, mortar, observation, and mech infantry platoon (I read that this mech infantry platoon would be in M113 rather than Namer since the infantry brigades get the namers first and they are in short supply right now).

What does all this mean? I have a good idea about some things. I have no idea whatsoever about other things (that gotdam recce company is in it). At this point I don't even think the IDF knows their own unit compositions.

I don't want another thread with speculation. I need answers or I'm permanently shelving any aspirations I have to game with the IDF.

So anyone with answers please respond. I want to paint 1 brigade each of armored and infantry specifically units from the 162nd division, 401st armored and Nahal brigades. On that note, Nahal brigade has the 50th paratrooper bn. What is in it. What do they drive/fly? How are they inserted into combat? Are they more like palsar/sayeret where they are elite and just sort of use whatever they want to get the mission done?

Signed,

Angry Gamer

EDIT – Why did it not censor w t f in the 4th paragraph but does censor it in the 6th? This angers and frustrates me even more. Would be pulling my hair out if I didn't shave it.

Take a deep breath.

Part of the fun of Ultra Modern gaming is using various possible organizations.

Also remember that real units rarely operate under the official TO&E.

Correct and I'll be perfectly honest here, I'm gaming in the year 2020 so some things that matter now won't matter in a few years due to recent changes. But there are other things that I have so little information on that I can't possibly even remotely accurately depict the unit on the table. Prime examples are the atgm support plts, do they use the Tamuz or still using older m113 tow thingies. The type of vehicle doesn't matter because I'm going to use Tamuz but how many are in the battery? 2? 4? 6? Nobody on earth seems to have this information.

I've been taking deep breaths about this for so long that it is starting to make me light headed. I NEED this information. Other people NEED this information. Why don't we have this information? I'm beyond pissed about this. I want information.

The major problem is that I have no hard numbers. There is more evidence to support the existence of a god than there is to support the existence of the IDF. Why am I the only one bothered by this? Why do micromark toe lists for the IDF stop in the late 90s early 2000s? Who do I have to pay or blow to get this information? Seriously. I'm tired of asking. I'm sure a lot of people are tired of asking. I'm sure a lot more are tired of threads like this (I've seen dozens, the one with the best answers so far is a Russian forum at waronline, a quick google translate gave me more info in one night than I've had in years but it all still seems like speculation and there is little to no info on infantry brigades).

Someone PLEASE post the info. So tired of googling IDF armored brigade toe and getting freaking images of canadian and british armored company toes. This lack of information is disgusting.

I think the IDF regard is as a state secret.
I just went with a 'team' formation…..options on 1-2 Merkava platoons (of 3) ,1-2 mech platoons M113, attached medic, mortar and command vehicles.
Attrition, combat and mechanical is enough to even out discrepancies from the official ToE,along with their mission orientated mindset and operational flexibility!
Go with what you have/want…….no one other than the IDF can call it!

You'll never find a relatively complete ToE for any IDF assets, as mentioned above, they are considered classified information.

Hell, they kept an entire class of vehicle secret for almost 30 years (Pereh Missile Carrier, with the Spike-LR and NLOS)!

I make do with a flexible basic structure, and some suppositions based on available info and my own guesses. Unfortunately, I can't read Hebrew, so some of the limited information that is out there is somewhat difficult to access.

Thanks for the responses guys. Let me ask this then. In historical wargaming there are basketloads of rivet counters or grognards or whatever they're called that do everything possible to ruin games because of historical inaccuracies. I generally refuse to play these people once I identify them because they suck the life and fun out of everything but there are people like me who strive for historical accuracy at all costs but will make concessions for the sake of fun and fairness. Do you think people would have a huge problem playing games with me if I used old TOEs from the late 90s and simply updated the old equipment to the new stuff? Like I have a golan brigade 1989 toe that uses achzarits. Would you play me if I took that exact list and just changed achzarit to namer? I want to do the IDF honor and respect by getting their forces correct but they have made this 100% impossible for me due to their iron curtain so I'll settle for getting it as close as possible.

Hey Omni,

I use the same the approach you mentioned. My modern forces are based on/around 1988-1989, since these TO&Es are available. The vehicles making up these formations are ultra modern in many cases. As several have mentioned a TO&E changes based on the need and available formations. My German division is missing one battalion of tanks. may never buy them. If I do not then the division is short that battalion.

Alright I'll just do that then. Thanks