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"How Big An Air Blast Radius Plastic Template For A MOAB?" Topic


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1,501 hits since 12 Apr 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 8:36 p.m. PST

What if your opponent dropped a scaled down version of the "Mother Of All Bombs" on your troops?

YouTube link

Would you even bother pulling out the tape measure, to see what part of the table escaped the blast wave devastation? :)

m.imgur.com/JJ0cjBx?r

Dan
link
link

TNE230013 Apr 2017 8:59 p.m. PST

MOAB Blast Radius Calculator:

link

link

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 9:05 p.m. PST

So what would be the "kill" radius?

Dan

TNE230013 Apr 2017 9:34 p.m. PST

Based on the simulator's calculations, the effects of the bomb would be widely felt, causing "most glass surfaces, such as windows" to shatter, "some with enough force to cause injury" as much as a mile from the blast site, according to the simulator. The actual blast would likely destroy one or two city blocks.

15 psi Complete destruction of reinforced concrete structures, such as skyscrapers, will occur within this ring.
Between 7 psi and 15 psi, there will be severe to total damage to these types of structures.
7 psi Severe damage to complete destruction of reinforced concrete structures, such as skyscrapers, will occur within this ring.
5 psi Complete destruction of ordinary houses, and moderate to severe damage to reinforced concrete structures, will occur within this ring.
2 psi Severe damage to ordinary houses, and light to moderate damage to reinforced concrete structures, will occur within this ring.
1 psi Light damage to all structures, and light to moderate damage to ordinary houses, will occur within this ring.
0.25 psi Most glass surfaces, such as windows, will shatter within this ring, some with enough force to cause injury



15 psi: 0.07 miles
10 psi: 0.09 miles
7 psi: 0.11 miles
5 psi: 0.13 miles
2 psi: 0.24 miles
1 psi: 0.35 miles
0.25 psi: 0.89 miles
0.1 psi: 1.83 miles

per wiki
link

4 psi fatalities occur
2 psi fatalities may occur

at a game scale of 4000:1 (DSII)

I'd put the 'killing' radius between
2 and 4 inches

but I'm sure morale 'damage' would occur a bit farther out

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 9:38 p.m. PST

Thinking of taking out a North Lorean nucular facility?

TNE230013 Apr 2017 9:41 p.m. PST

but
at a game scale of 120:1 (AHL)

that 2 to 4 inches becomes

6 to 10 FEET

TNE230013 Apr 2017 10:05 p.m. PST

oops! oops! butterfingers oops!

miss typed the KT figure in the calc
0.011 not 0.11 !


15 psi: 0.03 miles
10 psi: 0.04 miles
7 psi: 0.05 miles
5 psi: 0.06 miles
2 psi: 0.11 miles
1 psi: 0.16 miles
0.25 psi: 0.41 miles
0.1 psi: 0.85 miles

that would make the DSII radius
between 1 and 2 inches

and the AHL radius
between 2 and 5 feet

TNE230013 Apr 2017 10:08 p.m. PST

and that would put SGII (400:1) radii at
between 10 and 17 inches

Mako11 Inactive Member13 Apr 2017 11:08 p.m. PST

I've heard conflicting info, e.g. a 1 mile circumference, and another person said a 1 mile radius, but used "across" along with the latter distance, so I suspect the above table is causing some confusion.

Seems people may not know the difference between circumference and diameter too.

Mushroom cloud rises to 10,000 feet.

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 3:05 a.m. PST

How big is your can of lighter fluid ?

Jeigheff Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 4:32 a.m. PST

Yesterday morning, I read an interview with one of the authors of "Dog Company: A True Story of American Soldiers Abandoned by Their High Command." This gentleman, an officer, served in Afghanistan. The politically correct conditions imposed on US troops fighting there aren't just foolish or frustrating, they're also extremely dangerous.

The Taliban is also more barbaric than we generally get to know. The author gave an account of three National Guardsmen who went missing in the field. After starting a search, the body of one was found: he had been horribly tortured to death and mutilated. The officer got intel that the soldier's fingers were already being sold in the local bazaar as war trophies. The author made the point that when we hear about casualties in Afghanistan, they're sometimes not being killed in combat.

Yesterday evening, I read about the MOAB bomb being dropped on these same enemies. I can't say that I felt very sorry for them.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 4:41 a.m. PST

@Mako11: "Seems people may not know the difference between circumference and diameter too."

Lol. Most reporters I've met wouldn't know that there is a difference!

Dan

Mako11 Inactive Member14 Apr 2017 4:41 a.m. PST

This morning, they were saying a 1 mile radius again, which is a 2 mile diameter, beaten zone.

Ouch!

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 4:49 a.m. PST

And don't bother asking them what pi is.

Dan

Jamesonsafari Inactive Member14 Apr 2017 6:43 a.m. PST

It was used on a bunker and tunnel complex.
Did they have delayed burst to maximise the earthquake effectand collapse the underground structures?

TMPWargamerabbit14 Apr 2017 6:47 a.m. PST

Wonder why the MOAB is so special…. the Grand Slam bomb of WWII is about the same size and use, dropped from the Lancaster bomber instead of the "push it out drop". I don't think a C130 will make it over N Korean airspace, or Iran, or anywhere with good AA defenses.

For the reporters knowing the difference between circumference and diameter I say invite them to walk both distances…. say 1 mile diameter first, then the circumference of the same one mile diameter. Wasn't Pi a movie…..

StarCruiser14 Apr 2017 6:56 a.m. PST

Big difference is the HOW it works, not it's size. This is a fuel-air bomb.

Basically, it spreads a fuel out and then ignites it. The effect should literally suck the lungs out of anyone within a given area, even underground isn't very safe.

It's not the blast that kills most of the victims but, the vacuum effect.

SBminisguy14 Apr 2017 7:46 a.m. PST

MOAB is not a Fuel-Air Explosive, it is an HE bomb:

Filling weight 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
Blast yield 11 tons TNT (46 GJ)

link

55th Division14 Apr 2017 8:10 a.m. PST

the US have done bigger bombs they had the 43600lb T-12 bomb towards the end of WW2 and they have around 20 GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) on inventory which at 30000lbs makes it the largest current conventional bomb that the US have access to

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 10:01 a.m. PST

Grand Slam had about 2/3 the TNT equivalence of MOAB, since it was a ground/bunker penetrating weapon and so needed a heavy casing to allow it to do its job. In contrast MOAB isn't a penetrator, hence a larger proportion of the overall weapon weight can be devoted to explosive.

14Bore14 Apr 2017 10:30 a.m. PST

Heard interview of author and have preview of Dog Company, seems like a must read book

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 11:24 a.m. PST

Wouldn't this pretty much fall into the same category as tactical nuclear devices?

Point at a unit and remove it (large scale) or point at a gaming table and remove it (small scale)

goragrad14 Apr 2017 11:52 a.m. PST

Insofar as taking out a city block, the 2000 pound bomb in WWII was known as the 'Blockbuster' due to the fact that it could demolish a demolish city block. Although that was the combined effect of the blast and resulting inrush of air to replace the original out rush.

Would think that the MOAB would have a rather larger effect, although it would not be linear as it is primarily a function of area.

Legion 414 Apr 2017 1:06 p.m. PST

Amen Jiegheff

MOAB bomb being dropped on these same enemies. I can't say that I felt very sorry for them.
Nothing too horrible, etc., that occurs to Daesh/ISIS, Taliban, AQ, Hezbollah, IRGC, and any one that thinks like they do or supports them is NOT too horrendous enough, etc., … IMO …

Wonder why the MOAB is so special…. the Grand Slam bomb of WWII is about the same size and use, dropped from the Lancaster bomber instead of the "push it out drop". I don't think a C130 will make it over N Korean airspace, or Iran, or anywhere with good AA defenses.
Yes, the AAA/ADA situations over Iran and North Korea is vastly different. And has been addressed and noted by US Military planners. And that is generally another reason AC-130s are not used in that type of environment. Even with SEADS It would probably be a dicey mission.

Those type AAA/ADA rich environments would probably be handled by TLAMs, etc. As we saw in Syria recently. And TLAMs, those too can be used for SEADS as well.

What makes the MOAB[Massive Ordinance Air Blast] so much better than any WWII ordinance is accuracy. You can hit what you want with less ordinance. As opposed to the WWII concept of "carpet bombing", etc.

And yes, the MOAB is not a bunker buster, fuel air, etc. type bomb. As noted, it's has a very large payload of HE.

Did they have delayed burst to maximise the earthquake effectand collapse the underground structures?
Don't believe it works that way. Just with that much HE being dropped on an underground complex. Causes the tunnels, etc., to collapse. Along with all effects and damage done by the HE to everything in the blast radius.

Blast yield 11 tons TNT
An interesting fact for context, IIRC. A fully loaded B-52 during the Vietnam War could carry @ 13 tons.

And we have to remember the PSYOPs effects on the enemy(s) as well. Just feeling the earth rumbling and seeing that huge mushroom cloud, etc. if you were not in the blast radius. Could make them think they have been nuc'd, etc. …

And even seeing this of bomb and it's effects on the news may make the other enemies think a bit. About this type of non-nuc massive explosion. And it's employment, etc. We want them to realize, with weapons like TLAMs, MOABs, etc. We can 'swat" any enemy target with impunity. And the threat to our own forces is 0 or next to it.

shirleylyn Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member14 Apr 2017 2:35 p.m. PST

Well, the SJW's on SM are making a big deal about this bomb. You know…Trump and America is so bad for dropping this bomb. Evil empire, etc.

My husband served in Afghanistan. I wonder if they would like to hear from him what goes on over there?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 4:32 p.m. PST

"I wonder if they would like to hear from him what goes on over there?"

The wisdom would be wasted on them.

Now, if the SJWs were dropped in the middle of Afghanistan, they might learn a thing or two, if they survived long enough to learn anything.

Dan

Part time gamer14 Apr 2017 8:33 p.m. PST

TMPWargamerabbit
Wonder why the MOAB is so special….
The 'short answer'. It sells News papers and gets more people 'running for their TV sets. I wish I was joking, but remember guys in the world media, "If it bleds, It Leads."

I got curious talking about the B52, so I got my copy of TL books, "Tools of War" from "The Vietnam Experience" series.
This staggered me.

The max payload of the B52D Stratofortress was as follows.
INTERNALLY
It could carry 84 500lb. bombs (i.e. 42,000 lbs.- 21 Tons)

EXTERNALLY
Each 'hard point', 1 under each wing, could carry 12 500 lb. bombs (combined = 24 wing mounted; 12,000 lbs 6 Tons)

IN ALL
One B52D could deliver 108 500 lb. bombs.
(i.e 54,000 lbs or 27 Tons of ordinance).

By comparison, in late WW 2 a single B-29 Superfortress was said to carry apprx. 20,000 lbs 10 Tons. Less than half the payload.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 10:11 p.m. PST

Wow! And why did we stop making those B-52 beauties again?

Dan

Legion 415 Apr 2017 9:25 a.m. PST

Thanks for the updated intel Part time. Was a long time ago, I was involved in Air Ops['82-'83] … old fart So I guess I didn't remember correctly … frown

And Dan, there are many upgrades B-52s still flying as well as more in "mothballs". But today they can carry Cruise Missiles, etc., too. Much more accurate and cost effective than the Vietnam era. evil grin

My husband served in Afghanistan. I wonder if they would like to hear from him what goes on over there?
Thank him for me … from an old gray former soldier … old fart

The wisdom would be wasted on them.

Now, if the SJWs were dropped in the middle of Afghanistan, they might learn a thing or two, if they survived long enough to learn anything.

Amen Dan … Amen … But we have to be careful about using terms like SJWs around these parts. One does not want to labeled intolerant of others' beliefs, etc. wink Or worse yet … being exiled to the Dawg Haus !!!! huh?

Mako11 Inactive Member15 Apr 2017 10:54 p.m. PST

It's not a ground penetrator.

Personal logo Mardaddy Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2017 12:43 a.m. PST

I would think at that amount of HE, it does not need to be ground-penetrating. The blast alone will bury and collapse enough of the place.

Isolated as it is, I am not sure if enough people or equipment of the right type would make it out there in time to locate and dig survivors out before they suffocated or died from thirst/hunger.

Guess we will find out?

Legion 416 Apr 2017 5:10 a.m. PST

I agree Mardaddy. Along with the last Body Count was 94 including 4 Cdrs. So far … Along with 3 Tunnel complexes, ammo, weapons, other supplies, etc., etc., …

As I said, IMO, there is nothing too horrible, horrendous, unwarranted, etc. that could be inflicted/befall on ISIS/Deash, the Taliban, AQ, Hezbollah, IRGC, etc., … Like as you posted:

suffocated or died from thirst/hunger.
Is OK with me …

Part time gamer16 Apr 2017 9:46 a.m. PST

Legion
Thanks for the updated intel Part time. Was a long time ago, I was involved in Air Ops['82-'83] … So I guess I didn't remember correctly …
hey its cool Legion.
You 'remember from 'being there'", I simply 'read from a book'.

I never 'cheer' the death of anyone, but IF your going to Fight a war.. then FIGHT THE DAMM WAR! So yea it was the right move.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2017 10:46 a.m. PST

People unironically using "SJW" in a discussion about the gaming effects of military hardware is a good reminder I should have another beer.

Legion 417 Apr 2017 5:58 a.m. PST

Part time gamer

Thank U ! thumbs up & + 10 gold star to all you said ! evil grin

Save for the "cheer" part … on my list of "dancing & cheering in the street" if they are "terminated with extreme prejudice" :

UBL[gone]
AZK [in hiding]
Baghdadi [" "]
UBL Jr. [" "]
ISIS/Daesh
AQ
Taliban
Hezbollah
IRGC

Off the top of my head … wink

I should have another beer.
Two or three at least … beer guinness

a ground penetrator.
There is a USAF weapon called a "MOP" Massive Ordinance Penetrator … For targets … oh … let's say … a very deep reinforced underground bunker complex. Like … oh … say … one might find somewhere in NE Asia … evil grin

Lion in the Stars17 Apr 2017 4:12 p.m. PST

Wow! And why did we stop making those B-52 beauties again?

Slow (subsonic), limited nuclear payload at the time, and highly vulnerable to SAMs and interceptors.

Still good for making Bad Guys(tm) soil themselves, however.

Mako11 Inactive Member17 Apr 2017 4:48 p.m. PST

I'll bet SJWs can be made to be ground-penetrating.

Sadly, most, if not ALL of our bombers are subsonic.

Legion 418 Apr 2017 5:45 a.m. PST

With B-52s being able to carry Cruise Missiles. They can target an enemy with never being anywhere over or near the enemies' territory. But as Lion pointed out they do have some limitations. Based on the situation, etc.

Part time gamer24 Apr 2017 1:15 a.m. PST

Regarding the B52 upgrades and cruise missiles.
I seem to recall (YEARS ago) a 'report' perhaps it was only a proposal in order to keep them at least on the 'reserve list'.

IIRC an animated demo was made of the 'latest upgrade' idea. Basically the 52's would be installed w/2 'rotating' missile racks in the internal bomb bay. Ea. rack would carry 3 cruise missiles (CM's).

The theory: Each would 'drop the 1st missile', the rack would rotate (i.e. gatling gun), drop the 2nd, (rotate) then 3rd.
This would be repeated w/ the 2nd internal rack.

With the CM, even the older/slower 52 'could' still deliver a massive payload and w/ the CM's range, well away from the actual target area. Thus greatly reducing the risk to the aircrews.

Anyone know if this was ever put to use (even in limited numbers) or just ditched as 'not cost effective'.

Lion in the Stars24 Apr 2017 6:04 p.m. PST

@Part time gamer: The AGM-86 ALCM ended up too long to fit in bomb bays, it's external carriage only for B52s. The B1 has some kludged arrangement where it can load 8 missiles into 1.5 bomb bays.

Those rotating racks are the "Common Strategic Rotary Launcher" which hold 8 rounds each, either the old AGM69 SRAM or B61 bombs. Or a mix thereof.

Legion 425 Apr 2017 5:27 a.m. PST

Thanks for the intel Lion. I knew I had heard or read BUFFs could carry some sort of CM. And since B-52s are not "stealth". They can hang a lot of ordinance on the wings. Like the AGM-86 ALCM. link From link :

AGM-86B/C/D missiles increase flexibility in target selection. AGM-86B missiles can be air-launched in large numbers by the bomber force. B-52H bombers carry six AGM-86B or AGM-86C missiles on each of two externally mounted pylons and eight internally on a rotary launcher, giving the B-52H a maximum capacity of 20 missiles per aircraft.

An enemy force would have to counterattack each of the missiles, making defense against them costly and complicated. The enemy's defenses are further hampered by the missiles' small size and low-altitude flight capability, which makes them difficult to detect on radar.[2]



There are too many old B-52s around. And is still a good long range heavy weapons platform to not use it along with the less numerous B-1s & B-2s. Lots of aircraft carrying lots of ordinance … That concept still works in many situations.

Think about it, do the math, 10 B-52s with 20 CMs each. That equals 200 separate targets. E.g. Nork FA and missile locations/sites. And that does not include the B-1's & B-2's ordinance. Add Naval TLAMs … I like that equation … evil grin

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