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"Grande Armee vs Lasalle vs Blucher?" Topic


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Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2017 5:18 p.m. PST

Ive paged through each of these and they all look pretty fun.

What would you recommend and why, assuming the answer MUST be one of those three?

Which has the least stodgy movement rules?
Which are well suited to smaller games (in figure count) ?

Thanks!

forwardmarchstudios12 Apr 2017 5:33 p.m. PST

I did a Fast Play Grande Armée AAR the other week.

link

I think that Lasalle can be used more easily in smaller games. I played a game at HCON a few years ago and it was very fast paced and seamless. It incorporates some ideas and mechanisms from FPGA, as you've probably noticed.

Grande Armée's point of interest is mostly in seeing how larger armies were organized and fought due to that organization. You might be able to use less models per maneuver element than in Lasalle, but the larger and more complex the OOB, the better with GA. And Blucher, from what I understand, is similar to GA in scale. So, if you want to playa game with six units per side, Lasalle is the way to go. With GA/FPGA you're going to need a few dozens units between each side.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2017 6:49 p.m. PST

Appreciate the AAR and sounds like Lasalle may be a bit closer to the mark then.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Apr 2017 7:21 p.m. PST

Not exactly apples to apples though.

Lasalle is a tactical game with one unit = 1 battalion, Grande Armee/Blucher is one 3x3" stand = 1 brigade.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2017 7:26 p.m. PST

Depends on how you base so Grande Armee/Blucher could be less.
Here are 'brigades' of my 25mm Turks based for Blucher.

picture

picture

nickinsomerset13 Apr 2017 12:03 a.m. PST

Someone told me that in Blucher Artillery is restricted to a limited number of rounds shooting, is this the case?

Tally Ho!

evilgong Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 1:41 a.m. PST

hiya

>>>>>
Someone told me that in Blucher Artillery is restricted to a limited number of rounds shooting, is this the case
>>>>>>>>>>>

Much artillery is subsumed into the brigades and becomes a separate quality that helps them shoot, and is not limited in shots/effect.

Massed batteries indeed are limited in shots and degrade in power as they shoot, however they are still pretty good as any hits on units can be painful.

David F Brown

GatorDave Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 3:20 a.m. PST

I've played all 3 and prefer Blucher. Very quick to pick up. So far has given reasonable results. We can play a game with 4 corps per side and be done in 3 hours.

Footslogger13 Apr 2017 4:35 a.m. PST

I can't comment on anything but Blucher.

Blucher lets you use any figure size you like on any base size you like. So it's up to you how many figures you use.

I re-based my 28mm figures for Blucher. My infantry brigades have 12 figures and my cavalry ones 4, on bases 90mm wide.

You can (but don't have to) use unit cards instead of figures, or a mix of both while you paint up your armies.

1ngram13 Apr 2017 6:03 a.m. PST

Grande Armee when it came out was a great game – but it takes a long time to play. The command control rules are excellent but very time consuming. As a result our club only played it on days we had a whole day to play in.

Blucher is, in my opinion a step backward. It effectively abandoned Corps Commanders altogether and simplified/coarsened a number of other GA plus points. But it has a nifty, quicker command control rule using dice hidden from the player under a cup only seen by his opponent. If we could graft the Blucher Command Control rules onto Grande Armee we might have a very good set of rules.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 7:00 a.m. PST

Blucher is a simple set of rules with surprising depth. I like it a lot. The artillery can either be attached directly to your brigades which give them an extra attack die, but limits the range to the same as musketry but with no ammo limitations. You can also group your guns into larger 'grand battery' type units with long range and good hitting power, but limited ammo so they can't dominate the battlefield. I suppose you could make an ammo resupply rule for larger battles if you wanted to.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 8:32 a.m. PST

Okay, so definitely leaning towards Blucher and Lasalle then.

I guess I'll have to decide how tactical or how big battle we want to feel then.

I suppose you could cluster some Lasalle bases together to make a "big" base for Blucher.

Bandolier Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2017 6:22 p.m. PST

There is also Fast Play Grande Armee.
PDF link

Footslogger14 Apr 2017 1:10 a.m. PST

"I suppose you could cluster some Lasalle bases together to make a "big" base for Blucher."

That's a specific suggestion made in Blucher. Something like 2 x 40mm bases side by side would make a perfect Blucher unit.

Personal logo Old Warrior Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 9:37 a.m. PST

DELETED

Personal logo Old Warrior Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 9:40 a.m. PST

I have played all three extensively.

Lasalle is a very different and more tactical game than FPGA or Blucher as noted above.

Blucher is the best for many reasons compared especially to FPGA.

FPGA had a lot of issues concerning movemnt and combat. I agree it does give a good game but their were some issues that were never resolved.

Blucher is FPGA in its completed form. Also Blucher includes a very good campaign system that is useful for many Era's not just Napoleonics.

Having to choose one it would be Blucher.

forwardmarchstudios14 Apr 2017 10:35 a.m. PST

"FPGA had a lot of issues concerning movemnt and combat. I agree it does give a good game but their were some issues that were never resolved.

Blucher is FPGA in its completed form. Also Blucher includes a very good campaign system that is useful for many Era's not just Napoleonics."

That's true- I was thinking the other day that FPGA seemed to have some odd results. I should probably check out Blucher…

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2017 11:25 a.m. PST

Appreciate the thorough feedback guys.

What size bases do people do for blucher typically to look good in smaller figure scales?

Footslogger15 Apr 2017 1:30 a.m. PST

A lot depends also on the size of battle you want to fight and the space you have available.

For 6mm, say, 40mm by 40mm or 2" by 2" would be best for a really large battle, and maybe 3" or 75mm basewidth for not so large.

With the larger size and 6mm figures you could show something that might actually resemble a brigade of several battalions.

(Not that I actually DO 6mm, I just have some unused armies in that scale I've been wondering how to make best use of)

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Apr 2017 3:31 a.m. PST

If you are just starting out with Blucher/Napoleonics, I'll suggest this as a great way to start:

link

Mick the Metalsmith16 Apr 2017 6:27 a.m. PST

Bluecher remains the best set of Brigade level napoleonic rules I have played.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2017 8:30 a.m. PST

Blucher is a very good game, but I have more fun with Lasalle. I like the petit tactical and having formation changes even if the combined arms scale is not historical. Depends on what scale you want to play. Blucher is great at 6mm with mini dioramas as bases.

forwardmarchstudios16 Apr 2017 10:26 a.m. PST

Not to hijack OP's threat, but for those familiar with it, what are the real differences between Blucher and FPGA? Are there still control checks, sub-commander psych tests, the 6" rule, etc?

CATenWolde16 Apr 2017 11:43 a.m. PST

I played a lot of GA and FPGA back in the day, but only one game of Blucher. Blucher really has nothing to do with the GA tradition. It's much more similar to simplified Volley & Bayonet with a modified DBx style pip/command system. There's nothing there to argue with, really – it gives a pretty straightforward game, but with little depth (again, with the caveat that I only played one game).

forwardmarchstudios16 Apr 2017 12:15 p.m. PST

Huh.. frankly at this point in my going that sounds like I would enjoy it more. I don't know if it was ten years of social media saturation or what, but as I was playing FPGA the other day I kept thinking, man, this is way more complicated than the last time I played it…. : /

I'll probably downwload Blucher here shortly and knock out some games with my URS system figs.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2017 4:44 p.m. PST

The goal we've ended up setting is that we'll get into both Lasalle and Blucher, but we'll start with Blucher.

Personal logo Old Warrior Supporting Member of TMP17 Apr 2017 7:08 a.m. PST

Both FPGA and Blucher rely on Command points to activate a corps of units. If you run out of points some units do not move in both games.

Both try and place the gamer into the role of a Brigade or higher level of command.

Both games do not burden the gamer with decisions on battalion formations and instead focus on where to place the corps and divisons of an army.

FPGA has a funky flanking mechanic Blucher does not.

FPGA has very few differances between unit where Blucher has many uniqe differences between units.

FPGA is vanilla and Blucher has the spice.

Personal logo Old Warrior Supporting Member of TMP17 Apr 2017 7:13 a.m. PST

@CATenWolde
Run a game of FPGA and run the same scenario with Blucher and than get back to us.

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