"What if the Allies had lost WW1" Topic

An interesting perspective from am American (where we are MUCH more critical of the war) point of view.

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and this…
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It all depends on WHEN the Allies lost the war.
You can Google all kinds of "German War Aims", depending on the year.
What struck me most about the 1914 aims was that the Dastardly Hun didn't seem to have any plans when they went to war, besides the obvious "beat the French" and "beat the Russians". Usually, these were settled in the post war treaty negotiations.
So, the ministry hurriedly cobbled together a set of draconian "confiscate these territories" aims, the obvious ones.
These could legitimately be considered Plan A aims, to be negotiated at the table.

Both sides hardened their Aims as the war and casualties mounted. Anger set in. Nobody wanted "these precious lives to have perished in vain".

It also depends on how badly the Allies lost, and whether a case could have been made for a "stab in the back".

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yeah, the Germans were making up as they went along, with conflicting demands between industrialists who want gains in the west (northern France & Belgium), land owners in Prussia who want a strip of territory, the military whom wanted to push the Russians back with puppet states…and these aims all conflicted with Austria-Hungary, and Turkey…

Though from the peace of 1871, it can be assumed that any terms would have been quite harsh, setting the stage for significant revanchism down the road.

I still cant find 1 good reason that the US went to War.

We had loaned so much money to the Allies, that we couldn't afford to have them default. So it was done to save the NY Banks not for any noble cause.

Just think no War and no US army camp built on a old pig farm. No Pig farm camp no influenza pandemic of 1918-1919. It killed more people than the Great War. Estimates at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people would have lived.

As OFM the Wise said, it all depends on when and how badly the Allies lost.

I wrote this in reaction to the Kazin piece which I thought was terrible.

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Estimates at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people would have lived.

And reproduced. Wonder what they'd all be eating now? Or where they'd be living?

"And reproduced. Wonder what they'd all be eating now? Or where they'd be living?"

…perhaps some of them might live down the street…eating just what everyone else eats…and perhaps one or more of them might have discovered a cure for cancer, or a new energy source…but of course then there'd just be more people to feed and house and we can't have that, can we?

…but of course then there'd just be more people to feed and house and we can't have that, can we?

Well, one day, someone will have to say, "No, we can't!" as by then the Earth will be full.

are you seriously trotting out Malthus???

Well, one day, someone will have to say, "No, we can't!" as by then the Earth will be full.

I'am sure some right thinking person will solve that problem but being Judge,Jury, and executioner

I hope you are in the right thinking group and saved.

All very well sneering, gentlemen, but what alternative solutions are any of you offering (or even pointing me towards)?

I'll be dead by the time we reach that stage, so I won't be among either the "judge, jury and executioners" or the "saved"; sorry to disappoint you (wargamers were definitely on my "to be spared" list, if that's any consolation). However, the world's population has more than doubled in my lifetime (and I'm not yet 60), and is predicted to have trebled by 2050 (by when I'll be 90). Over to you……

Take my advice gentleman. Let that pro-Malthus post go. Do not respond to it. Stifle the person if you must, but do not lose time and effort.

I decided to read your article, KTravlos, and I find it very convincing. Nice work there!

Thank you. Full of orthographic mistakes. Proof that a PhD does not make one a better writer :D

Another speculative possibility –
The German March 1918 offensive succeeds in breaking through to Paris. France collapses politically and seeks terms, while British forces retreat to the coast and withdraw back to Great Britain. Continental Europe falls under the sway of Imperial Germany in a manner similar to that of Napoleon's position after defeating Austria in 1809. A long power struggle ensues, with Great Britain seeking to destabilize and break up a German dominated European domain of disgruntled states.

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Enjoyed the article KT…one which agrees with my own perception.

One question, I am right that according to the figures, the Central Powers go from ~6m men under arms in 1917 to 10m in 1918?

Yes, the last push of the Germans. Remember that the CPs, like Axis in WWII, only went to total war after the Entente.