"Insights into 8th edition 40K" Topic

Including new basing systems and new deep strike rules.

Also you can see a box in the background for plastic Thunderhawks.

This video is from the design studio.

YouTube link

If you freeze it at 33 seconds, you can just see two squats flying off the table due to the orbital bombardment.

Astra Militarum will revert back to Imperial Guard.

The Imperial Guard will no longer use lasguns, but bolters just like the Space Marines. Yes, there is evidence of guardsmen using bolters in the 1st edition rulebook for Epic.

Square bases? Brilliant…. not!

Guardsmen used bolters, and even had minis with bolters, back in Rogue Trader.

Square bases….cuz 'In the grim dark future, there is only linear warfare!

Bolters, pphhffff, proper IG have 5 las-cannon in a basic tac' platoon!

OMG! Clearly-defined firing arcs! ;)

Also Shadow War: Armageddon is up for pre order and already sold out!

link

Damm April's fool!

Also Shadow War: Armageddon is up for pre order and already sold out!

I saw that. What poor product management by GW. This was probably the most hotly anticipated release in months if not years and it sells out in a couple of hours because they underestimate the demand? So much for that gateway game into 40k.

I would have guessed that Inferno, BoP and CaC were more hotly anticipated but if it really is sold out, instead of it being an April Fools day thing

That would be an odd thing to joke about.

I suppose, but it would be pretty neat for it to pop up later in the day and then un disappoint a lot of people.

It apparently sold out in 3 minutes.

Hmmm… "Plastic Thunderhawk" box.

What about Checkov's gun!

All I really need from SW:A is the rules and counters. Got SM Scouts and Ork Boyz already. So I'll be checking eBay later this month.

And my guess is the terrain will be available separately soon enough too.

Guardsmen used bolters

Also had Jet Bikes as well, but GW got rid of those along with many other items/models.

What &@?# poor product management by GW

Not really since I believe that this was just another grab for cash from GW.

Just make enough to bring in a good profit/cash and get on with the next stand-alone game.

GW is showing that they are not in for the long haul with these games.

But with them likely planning on giving 40K the Age of Sigmar treatment it is better for them not to have inventory on hand that will be dead in the future.

Make the quick cash now and if customers didn't get a chance to buy well…

Tough Luck to them.

Of course they will restock it ….

Makes no sense when you consider the costs for tooling molds for plastic toys…
There will be a second and even possibly a third printing…

According to Mithmee:

if GW sells out of something – Another cash grab
if GW doesn't sell out of something – Poor product that won't sell

They didn't tool any molds for this, Capt Flash. The scout and ork miniatures are old, as are the templates. The terrain is new, but certainly wasn't tooled just for this and will be sold separately. This game now just seems like a way to introduce the terrain in a bundle.

It quite clearly says that the pre-order has sold out and that it will be available in-stores on 8th April and then will become re-available again on the website. Obviously this shows that the intention is to guarantee they have stock to cover the launch day at the stores rather than embarrass themselves. So yet again Mithmee is talking his usual drivel.

Guardsmen used bolters, and even had minis with bolters, back in Rogue Trader

I got one of those in my IG kill team.

I have no idea why they abandoned the RT Guard look, best exemplified by the original Imperial Guard plastics. They looked awesome!

Because they (I.E. GW) did not want lowly Imperial Guard capable of killing Space Marines with ease.

Actually, Guard sergeants can take bolters for the princely sum of 1pt. Also, the best method for killing Space Marines with Guardsmen is Leman Russ battle cannons or massed lasgun fire. Always has been, really. Even in 2nd Edition or Rogue Trader.

My FLGS is getting 4 copies, 3 of which will be sold immediately because they have been reserved by customers.

Rumor has it that the rules will be available free for download, though that could just mean the kill team pdfs that are already posted.

I do think this will be very popular.

BTW Mithmee, my IG used to frustrate Space Marine players because I would have a 30 man combined quad use "First Rank, Second Rank fire" (or whatever the exact name is) and fire 90 lasgun shots with an 18" threat range (or 60 with a 30" threat range) and kill their powered armor squads. Add Prescience and its just too easy… 90 shots even without prescience will likely kill 5 marines.

In 2nd edition it was goofy, because I would use command squads with all flamers and have my psykers use The Gate and the other teleport power (cant remember the names of the 2nd ed powers) to get my command squads into the opponents deployment zone on turn 1 (IIRC). Then I would flame the hell out of his army, setting everybody on fire, which was ridiculous with the 2nd edition "on fire" rules.

Also IIRC, lasguns had a -1 save mod so marines would have had a 4+ on 2nd vs lasguns. I could be mistaken on that though, its been so long.

So IG not having bolters after RT was definitely a non-issue.

Yes, a lasgun had -1 save short through 2nd ed.

A RT autogun had a 36" range, but dropped to the standard two foot in 2nd. We house ruled it to have extended range in 2nd and Necromunda (but maybe not a full 36", I can't remember now), since it had no save mod, but cost the same as a lasgun.

*Everybody* having bolters is silly (as is a command squad with flamers ). The original RT IG minis all look like hard campaigners, with pieced out-kit and miscellaneous weaponry. I just ran with that.

or massed lasgun fire. Always has been

So if you would still give your Imperial Guard Las Guns even if you could give them Bolters?

I doubt that since a Str 4 weapon is and will always be better than a Str 3 weapon.

Which is why the Imperial Guard lost the ability to have them.

fire 90 lasgun shots with an 18" threat range (or 60 with a 30" threat range)

Only because GW made 40K into a bucket of dice game.

Oh unless I mistaken I believer the effective range of this is only 12" not 18".

Plus just how do you get are range of 30" for a Las Gun? The max range for a Las Gun is only 24".

"So if you would still give your Imperial Guard Las Guns even if you could give them Bolters?"

Depending on point cost, and whether I am doing massed infantry or veteran squads, I may or may not take boltguns.

"Only because GW made 40K into a bucket of dice game."

The shooting mechanics of the game have been the same since Rogue Trader. Marines actually were more succeptable to lasguns in RT/2nd ed.

"Oh unless I mistaken I believer the effective range of this is only 12" not 18".
Plus just how do you get are range of 30" for a Las Gun? The max range for a Las Gun is only 24"."

I said threat range, the troops can move 6" then shoot.

The shooting mechanics of the game have been the same since Rogue Trader

No they haven't.

Back in Rogue Trader Las Guns could only shoot – Once and only Once.

So 30 Las Gun armed Imperial Guard would only be able to roll 30 dice in total.

Oh and they would not be able to group up into one big squad.

So given that the BS stayed the same out of those 30 shots you could only expect around 13-17 shots to hit if your target was in the open and far fewer hits if the target were in cover either a -1 or -2 to shooting. A huge difference since 30 shots needing 6's to hit means like 4-6 hits.

Than there were the rolls to wound which if in the open meant only like 5 wounded models and if in cover lucky to get 1.

Then came the saves at -1 so out of those 30 shots you might actually kill 2 Marines.

40K today looks nothing like Rogue Trader or 2nd Edition.

Yup 90 shots equals around 45 hits with around 15 wounds and 5 or models dead.

Bucket of Dice game – "He who can roll more dice per turn has the greater chance at winning the game"

Also back in Rogue Trader all Space Marines were consider to have jump packs so could move 18", which allowed them great mobility.

Oh and the game back then was far more dependent on maneuvering than today.

Oh and the game back then was far more dependent on maneuvering than today.

Rose colored glasses. Firepower in RT was deadly in the extreme. Maneuver was only possible if there was low force density and lots of hard cover. What do you think 4 heavy bolters (super common) with targeters would do under RT rules? They'd make today's str8 ap3 large blasts look weak when it comes to slaying marines.

I remember in 2nd edition Heavy Bolters peeled away marines like they weren't even wearing armour. With S5 and a -2 save plus the sustained fire dice a squad with four heavy bolters turned a squad of marines into a thin red mist.

When 3rd edition came out the marines were much improved, they seemed like they were actually tough instead of getting wiped out by guardsmen with lasguns. I remember being surprised that a tactical squad was actually something desirable to have on the table.

We had one guy in our group in 2nd edition that fielded tactical squads. We used to laugh about it. They were useless.

In 3rd edition the tactical squad was one of the more useful units in the game and then with 3.5 it was probably the most useful all around unit.

3rd improved on the mess that was 2nd edition immensely.

Even troop types like Eldar guardians were useful again with the default Shuriken catapult being a weapon that was capable of being used the way you wanted to fight with your Eldar.

It forced you to stay mobile and maneuver to do hit and run attacks on the enemy with combinations of different types of troops, rather than just sit back and shoot down space marines because you couldn't afford the BS penalty for moving.

We liked playing 2nd edition when it was all we had. When 3rd edition came out any time we've tried 2nd edition since, except for with Necromunda, we just gave up. It was a mess.

Ahh… I stifled and ignored Mithmee and it makes this thread much more pleasant to read.

The mechanics ARE the same, the lasrifle changed. So your "bucket of dice" idea still existed then, you'd just need to bring 2x the number of guardsmen. I meant marines were more susceptible to lasguns hurting them because of the -1 save modifier.

And maneuver was nearly impossible vs marines. If they went first they would go into overwatch and devastate my orks as soon as I tried to move.

Luckily I got Nazdreg in the 2nd ed ork codex and with his doubled strategy rating I had a better chance to go first and move a bit before they had time to settle into overwatch. The pulsa rokkit in that book also helped a lot. ;)

We were all poor and in college during 2nd ed, with no easy access to a place that sold GW stuff. My friend managed to buy an Advanced Space Crusade (IIRC) which came with a bunch of SM scouts. I think it was 4 squads, each with a heavy bolter. He would infiltrate those in and absolutely devastate us with the heavy bolters. We really had to work to figure out ways to neutralize the effect of those scouts. But those heavy bolters were deadly!

Pretty funny video. I like their humor.

If they went first they would go into overwatch and devastate my orks as soon as I tried to move.

Never worried about Overwatch since if they just want to sit there and allow me to move than good.

Oh and Imperial Guard squads costs more back than so you not going to field more of them.

Oh and Imperial Guard squads costs more back than so you not going to field more of them.

An IG Tactical squad cost 100 then, 50 now. A Space Marine Tactical squad of 10 was 300 then, 140 now.

Therefore, the ratio of IG to marines remains roughly the same.

Therefore, the ratio of IG to marines remains roughly the same.

Though back than Marines only had a 4+ save and when you took in the minus from the weapons they did die.

Today they have a 3+ save so it is harder to kill them. While Imperial Guard still have that 5+ save but with most weapons being AP 5 they die when shot.

But the good Marine player made use of cover back than as well.

So you could fire off a lot of shots and still not hit anything.

Plus most Imperial Guard players that I knew back than usually kept all of their Guardsmen inside their vehicles.

Because they were really easy to kill because with a 5+ armor save and being only toughness 3 meant that when they got hit they usually died.

Marines started with a 4+ in Rogue Trader. They've had a 3+ since 2nd edition at least. Sold my Compendium and Compilation years ago so can't comment on whether that was adjusted in WD articles before 2nd came out.

Not sure about keeping IG in their vehicles. Unless you used the Ablative Armor or Ceramite vehicle cards, vehicles tended to pop pretty quick in 2nd ed.

Vehicles were suicide machines in 2nd edition. Only fools put actual soldiers in APCs, with the possible exception of a land raider.

Marines started with a 4+ in Rogue Trader. They've had a 3+ since 2nd edition at least.

Marines also started out with a Toughness of 3. Their first "proper" army list in WD 105 (Sept. 88) still shows T3, it was upped to 4 soon after.

"Me heart pills!"

bit.ly/2oQMhwX

"No, it totally does. I'll take it. I will take that boob."

Thanks, it's been a while since I saw this!

That is hysterical.

Perhaps it was his sweettooth that the ork wanted. They might be worth more.

Marines started with a 4+ in Rogue Trader. They've had a 3+ since 2nd edition at least

Marines also started out with a Toughness of 3. Their first "proper" army list in WD 105 (Sept. 88) still shows T3, it was upped to 4 soon after.

True, but I was talking about Armor Saves.

Just picked up a copy of 'Shadow War: Armageddon.' It's being billed as Necromunda 2nd Ed. Looking forward to trying it out.

Also got a copy of the new WD, which includes data on other kill teams for the game.