"AWI OOB Help" Topic

16 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the American Revolution Message Board

Action Log

28 Mar 2017 11:24 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

Removed from 18th Century Discussion board
Crossposted to American Revolution board

KPinder	28 Mar 2017 4:05 p.m. PST
Over the years I have tried off and on to work up a good OOB for the 1775 Invasion of the Quebec Province. I have most of it nailed down, but one nagging mystery still eludes me. What was the Massachusetts contribution to Montgomery's column? I know that Arnold tried to recruit in Massachusetts for a go at Fort Ticonderoga, but few if any of them arrived before Allen and his crew got it done. In the ensuing weeks some Massachusetts men arrived and formed something of a corps of personality around Arnold. These were the men who took the Enterprise and Liberty out into the Lake in defiance of Col. Hinman's authority when the 4th Conn turned up. I have had the sense that apart from the naval element, the Massachusetts land component was a handful of spirited hangers on. The Osprey mentions no 1775 component from Mass, but one map shows 2 troop blocks noted as "Massachusetts Levies." Can anyone shed some light on this murky matter?
Morning Scout	28 Mar 2017 6:01 p.m. PST
I believe Hubbard's Company was from Worcester area, if you can get copies of Revolutionary War Journals of Henry Dearborn, 1775-1783 and the Revolutionary War Journals of Simon Forbes they contain a number of references to Massachusetts participants, I know at least some Massachusetts officers are referenced in Dearborn's journal. I believe at least parts of Dearborn's Journal is available online.
Morning Scout	28 Mar 2017 6:10 p.m. PST
This should also help to give some specifics and context as it also covers the Massachusetts participants from the central Mass area. Proceedings of the Worcester Society of Antiquity …, Volume 25 link
DisasterWargamer	28 Mar 2017 6:59 p.m. PST
Quite a few references in Journals and this free e-book if you are interested – for example pages 414-416 link
Morning Scout	28 Mar 2017 7:29 p.m. PST
Sorry, you were asking about Massachusetts troops in Montgomery's Column. I believe that number would be about 300 militia recruited from the Berkshires area in and around Pittsfield. The Battle for the Fourteenth Colony: America's War of Liberation in Canada by Mark Anderson has at least one reference to them. There are others, but I would need to search them out to give you some specifics.
Supercilius Maximus	29 Mar 2017 1:26 p.m. PST
I'm the author of the Osprey Campaign title "Quebec 1775" and can only apologise for the omission of the orbats. From what I can recall, Osprey altered the maximum word count between my being commissioned and the manuscript being delivered and the editorial team (without consulting me) decided that the thing to get rid of would be the orbats. Sorry. This is what I managed to acquire on the Rebel forces around December 1775 (actually Jan/Feb 1776 is the nearest return for them). I have included the last returns I have before Dec 1775, so you can get some idea of roughly how strong the units were when they arrived outside Quebec. REBEL FORCES IN NEW YORK, JULY 1775 Ticonderoga 4th Connecticut Regiment (Col. Benjamin Hinman) 478 Massachusetts Bay levies 40 Crown Point 4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 293 Massachusetts Bay levies 109 "Landing" 4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 98 Fort George 4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 104 Massachusetts Bay levies 25 New York levies 209 New York City 1st Connecticut Regiment (Brig Gen David Wooster) 576 5th Connecticut Regiment (Col. David Waterbury) 929 TOTAL 3,041 (includes 67 "sick present" and 15 on furlough) REBEL FORCES IN CANADA, SEPTEMBER 1775 Officer commanding, Major General Philip Schuyler Second-in-command, Brigadier General Richard Montgomery New York artillery company (Captain John Lamb) 100 New Hampshire Rangers (Maj Timothy Bedel) 100 Green Mountain Boys (Lt Col Seth Warner) 175 1st Connecticut Regt (Brig Gen David Wooster) 350 4th Connecticut Regt (Col Benjamin Hinman) 300 5th Connecticut Regt (Col David Waterbury) 500 Canadian levies (Col James Livingston) 300 1st New York Regt (Col Alexander MacDougall) 125 2nd New York Regt (Col Goose Van Schaik) 400 4th New York Regt (Col James Holmes) 500 TOTAL 2,850 REBEL FORCES AT QUEBEC, FEBRUARY 1776 The three totals after each regiment are for those personnel who were fit for duty, unfit, and the overall total. Quebec Officer commanding, Colonel Benedict Arnold vice Montgomery Regiment (Commander) Fit Unfit Total New York Art Co (Capt. Isaiah Wool) 31 nil 31 Provisional Det (Lt Col Christopher Greene) 114 64 178 Provisional Det (Maj John Brown) 136 37 173 1st New York (Col Alexander McDougall) 125 75 200 2nd New York (Col Goose van Schaick) 124 41 165 3rd New York (Col James Clinton) 187 54 241 4th New York (formerly Col James Holmes) 82 32 114 1st Canadian (Col James Livingston) 196 23 219 Total 964 326 1,290 This is the nearest known return to December 31, both in time and numbers. The NY Art Coy strength is from March; the unit was formed from the survivors of Lamb's company after December 31. Greene's detachment is the remnant of Arnold's command; another 426 were prisoners in Quebec viz.: 1 Lt-Col, 2 Maj, 8 Capt, 15 Lts, 1 adjutant, 4 volunteers, 1 quartermaster, and 350 enlisted men; a further 44 wounded (officers and men) were also taken and another 60 New Englanders and 10 New Yorkers were killed. Brown's detachment is the remnant of Easton's and Bedel's corps. The 1st Canadian was formed in January and February, and had absorbed the cadre of Canadians (up to 100) present with Arnold on December 31. An additional 59 officers and NCOs were also unfit for duty. Does that help at all?
oldnorthstate	29 Mar 2017 1:27 p.m. PST
Good to hear I'm not the only one to have had editorial disputes with the Osprey editors…
KPinder	29 Mar 2017 4:44 p.m. PST
Well day'yum! I can't imagine it getting any better than this. Thanks most sincerely to all who weighed in. Most especially SM. kp
Andrew Preziosi	29 Mar 2017 5:17 p.m. PST
Very Nice of you to do this, Supercilius Max!
Supercilius Maximus	30 Mar 2017 2:42 a.m. PST
If you need the British stuff as well, just shout.
Andrew Preziosi	30 Mar 2017 6:35 a.m. PST
So shall it be written, so shall it be done! SHOUT!
vtsaogames	30 Mar 2017 6:48 a.m. PST
Shout two! What a bonanza!
KPinder	30 Mar 2017 10:47 a.m. PST
I have a pretty good bead on the Crown side, but inasmuch as there is no such thing as too many sources of information,…here it comes… SHOUT!
Supercilius Maximus	31 Mar 2017 5:06 p.m. PST
As requested ROYAL FORCES IN CANADA, SEPTEMBER 1775 St Johns – Officer commanding, Major Charles Preston (26th Foot) Royal Navy 13 all ranks Royal Regiment of Artillery 40 all ranks 7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 259 all ranks 26th Regiment of Foot 215 all ranks Royal Highland Emigrants 70 all ranks Civilian volunteers 100 approx. Indians 100 approx. Total strength 800 Chambly – Officer commanding, Major the Hon. Joseph Stopford (7th Foot) Royal Regiment of Artillery 5 all ranks 7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 83 all ranks Total strength 88 all ranks Montreal – Officer commanding, Lt Col (acting Brig Gen) Richard Prescott, 7th Foot * 26th Regiment of Foot 113 all ranks Total strength – approximately 120 [ * The only Colonel of the 7th Foot for whom there is no known portrait. The feckin' cheapskate! ] Quebec – Officer commanding, Lt Col Alan MacLean (Royal Highland Emigrants) Royal Regiment of Artillery 4 all ranks 7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 63 all ranks Marines 37 all ranks Embodied militia 300 all ranks Royal Highland Emigrants 100 all ranks Total strength – approximately 500 Great Lakes – Officer commanding, Lt Col John Caldwell (8th Foot) Royal Regiment of Artillery 18 all ranks 8th Regiment of Foot 400 approx. Total strength 420 approx. ROYAL FORCES AT QUEBEC, DECEMBER 1775 Officer commanding, Maj Gen Guy Carleton Second-in-command, Lt Col Alan MacLean (Royal Highland Emigrants) Sailors (nine companies) 146 all ranks Royal Regiment of Artillery 5 all ranks Artificers 32 all ranks 7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 67 all ranks Marines 32 all ranks Royal Highland Emigrants 130 all ranks Embodied militia (British) 300 all ranks Embodied militia (Canadian) 564 all ranks 1er Compagnie 5 officers, 67 men 2eme Compagnie 3 officers, 34 men 3eme Compagnie 5 officers, 70 men 4eme Compagnie 4 officers, 72 men 5eme Compagnie 4 officers, 68 men 6eme Compagnie 4 officers, 77 men 7eme Compagnie 5 officers, 71 men 8eme Compagnie 4 officers, 71 men Total strength – approximately 1,500 All unit strengths are as at November 14-16, except for the Canadian militia, which is for December 16. The Fusiliers and Emigrants together apparently numbered 200, but there were also 92 recruits for the Emigrants within the city. All Canadian militia companies except the 2eme had one captain, one captain-en-seconde, one lieutenant, and one or two ensigns; the enlisted men included 2 sergeants and 4 corporals, the balance being miliciens or privates. The 2eme Compagnie consisted entirely of volontaires and had a captain, a lieutenant, an ensign, one sergeant, one corporal, and 32 privates. Hope that scratches the itch(es) sufficiently.
Bill N	31 Mar 2017 6:25 p.m. PST
Thanks for posting this.
KPinder	02 Apr 2017 6:20 p.m. PST
Many thanks SM. k

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.