Help support TMP


"AWI OOB Help" Topic


16 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the American Revolution Message Board


Action Log

28 Mar 2017 11:24 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from 18th Century Discussion board
  • Crossposted to American Revolution board


538 hits since 28 Mar 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

KPinder Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 4:05 p.m. PST

Over the years I have tried off and on to work up a good OOB for the 1775 Invasion of the Quebec Province. I have most of it nailed down, but one nagging mystery still eludes me. What was the Massachusetts contribution to Montgomery's column?

I know that Arnold tried to recruit in Massachusetts for a go at Fort Ticonderoga, but few if any of them arrived before Allen and his crew got it done. In the ensuing weeks some Massachusetts men arrived and formed something of a corps of personality around Arnold. These were the men who took the Enterprise and Liberty out into the Lake in defiance of Col. Hinman's authority when the 4th Conn turned up.

I have had the sense that apart from the naval element, the Massachusetts land component was a handful of spirited hangers on. The Osprey mentions no 1775 component from Mass, but one map shows 2 troop blocks noted as "Massachusetts Levies."

Can anyone shed some light on this murky matter?

Personal logo Morning Scout Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 6:01 p.m. PST

I believe Hubbard's Company was from Worcester area, if you can get copies of Revolutionary War Journals of Henry Dearborn, 1775-1783 and the Revolutionary War Journals of Simon Forbes they contain a number of references to Massachusetts participants, I know at least some Massachusetts officers are referenced in Dearborn's journal.

I believe at least parts of Dearborn's Journal is available online.

Personal logo Morning Scout Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 6:10 p.m. PST

This should also help to give some specifics and context as it also covers the Massachusetts participants from the central Mass area.
Proceedings of the Worcester Society of Antiquity …, Volume 25
link

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 6:59 p.m. PST

Quite a few references in Journals and this free e-book if you are interested – for example pages 414-416

link

Personal logo Morning Scout Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 7:29 p.m. PST

Sorry, you were asking about Massachusetts troops in Montgomery's Column.
I believe that number would be about 300 militia recruited from the Berkshires area in and around Pittsfield.

The Battle for the Fourteenth Colony: America's War of Liberation in Canada by Mark Anderson has at least one reference to them. There are others, but I would need to search them out to give you some specifics.

Supercilius Maximus29 Mar 2017 1:26 p.m. PST

I'm the author of the Osprey Campaign title "Quebec 1775" and can only apologise for the omission of the orbats. From what I can recall, Osprey altered the maximum word count between my being commissioned and the manuscript being delivered and the editorial team (without consulting me) decided that the thing to get rid of would be the orbats. Sorry.

This is what I managed to acquire on the Rebel forces around December 1775 (actually Jan/Feb 1776 is the nearest return for them). I have included the last returns I have before Dec 1775, so you can get some idea of roughly how strong the units were when they arrived outside Quebec.

REBEL FORCES IN NEW YORK, JULY 1775

Ticonderoga
4th Connecticut Regiment (Col. Benjamin Hinman) 478
Massachusetts Bay levies 40
Crown Point
4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 293
Massachusetts Bay levies 109
"Landing"
4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 98
Fort George
4th Connecticut Regiment (detachment) 104
Massachusetts Bay levies 25
New York levies 209
New York City
1st Connecticut Regiment (Brig Gen David Wooster) 576
5th Connecticut Regiment (Col. David Waterbury) 929

TOTAL 3,041
(includes 67 "sick present" and 15 on furlough)

REBEL FORCES IN CANADA, SEPTEMBER 1775

Officer commanding, Major General Philip Schuyler
Second-in-command, Brigadier General Richard Montgomery

New York artillery company (Captain John Lamb) 100

New Hampshire Rangers (Maj Timothy Bedel) 100
Green Mountain Boys (Lt Col Seth Warner) 175

1st Connecticut Regt (Brig Gen David Wooster) 350
4th Connecticut Regt (Col Benjamin Hinman) 300
5th Connecticut Regt (Col David Waterbury) 500
Canadian levies (Col James Livingston) 300
1st New York Regt (Col Alexander MacDougall) 125
2nd New York Regt (Col Goose Van Schaik) 400
4th New York Regt (Col James Holmes) 500

TOTAL 2,850

REBEL FORCES AT QUEBEC, FEBRUARY 1776
The three totals after each regiment are for those personnel who were fit for duty, unfit, and the overall total.
Quebec
Officer commanding, Colonel Benedict Arnold vice Montgomery
Regiment (Commander) Fit Unfit Total
New York Art Co (Capt. Isaiah Wool) 31 nil 31
Provisional Det (Lt Col Christopher Greene) 114 64 178
Provisional Det (Maj John Brown) 136 37 173
1st New York (Col Alexander McDougall) 125 75 200
2nd New York (Col Goose van Schaick) 124 41 165
3rd New York (Col James Clinton) 187 54 241
4th New York (formerly Col James Holmes) 82 32 114
1st Canadian (Col James Livingston) 196 23 219

Total 964 326 1,290

This is the nearest known return to December 31, both in time and numbers.
The NY Art Coy strength is from March; the unit was formed from the survivors of Lamb's company after December 31.
Greene's detachment is the remnant of Arnold's command; another 426 were prisoners in Quebec viz.: 1 Lt-Col, 2 Maj, 8 Capt, 15 Lts, 1 adjutant, 4 volunteers, 1 quartermaster, and 350 enlisted men; a further 44 wounded (officers and men) were also taken and another 60 New Englanders and 10 New Yorkers were killed.
Brown's detachment is the remnant of Easton's and Bedel's corps.
The 1st Canadian was formed in January and February, and had absorbed the cadre of Canadians (up to 100) present with Arnold on December 31.
An additional 59 officers and NCOs were also unfit for duty.

Does that help at all?

oldnorthstate29 Mar 2017 1:27 p.m. PST

Good to hear I'm not the only one to have had editorial disputes with the Osprey editors…

KPinder Supporting Member of TMP29 Mar 2017 4:44 p.m. PST

Well day'yum! I can't imagine it getting any better than this. Thanks most sincerely to all who weighed in. Most especially SM.

kp

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP29 Mar 2017 5:17 p.m. PST

Very Nice of you to do this, Supercilius Max!

Supercilius Maximus30 Mar 2017 2:42 a.m. PST

If you need the British stuff as well, just shout.

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2017 6:35 a.m. PST

So shall it be written, so shall it be done!

SHOUT! wink

vtsaogames30 Mar 2017 6:48 a.m. PST

Shout two! What a bonanza!

KPinder Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2017 10:47 a.m. PST

I have a pretty good bead on the Crown side, but inasmuch as there is no such thing as too many sources of information,…here it comes…

SHOUT!

Supercilius Maximus31 Mar 2017 5:06 p.m. PST

As requested

ROYAL FORCES IN CANADA, SEPTEMBER 1775

St Johns
Officer commanding, Major Charles Preston (26th Foot)
Royal Navy 13 all ranks
Royal Regiment of Artillery 40 all ranks
7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 259 all ranks
26th Regiment of Foot 215 all ranks
Royal Highland Emigrants 70 all ranks
Civilian volunteers 100 approx.
Indians 100 approx.

Total strength 800

Chambly
Officer commanding, Major the Hon. Joseph Stopford (7th Foot)
Royal Regiment of Artillery 5 all ranks
7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 83 all ranks

Total strength 88 all ranks

Montreal
Officer commanding, Lt Col (acting Brig Gen) Richard Prescott, 7th Foot *
26th Regiment of Foot 113 all ranks

Total strength approximately 120
[ * The only Colonel of the 7th Foot for whom there is no known portrait. The feckin' cheapskate! ]

Quebec
Officer commanding, Lt Col Alan MacLean (Royal Highland Emigrants)
Royal Regiment of Artillery 4 all ranks
7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 63 all ranks
Marines 37 all ranks
Embodied militia 300 all ranks
Royal Highland Emigrants 100 all ranks

Total strength approximately 500

Great Lakes
Officer commanding, Lt Col John Caldwell (8th Foot)
Royal Regiment of Artillery 18 all ranks
8th Regiment of Foot 400 approx.

Total strength 420 approx.


ROYAL FORCES AT QUEBEC, DECEMBER 1775

Officer commanding, Maj Gen Guy Carleton
Second-in-command, Lt Col Alan MacLean (Royal Highland Emigrants)

Sailors (nine companies) 146 all ranks
Royal Regiment of Artillery 5 all ranks
Artificers 32 all ranks
7th Regiment of Foot (Royal Fusiliers) 67 all ranks
Marines 32 all ranks
Royal Highland Emigrants 130 all ranks
Embodied militia (British) 300 all ranks
Embodied militia (Canadian) 564 all ranks
1er Compagnie 5 officers, 67 men
2eme Compagnie 3 officers, 34 men
3eme Compagnie 5 officers, 70 men
4eme Compagnie 4 officers, 72 men
5eme Compagnie 4 officers, 68 men
6eme Compagnie 4 officers, 77 men
7eme Compagnie 5 officers, 71 men
8eme Compagnie 4 officers, 71 men

Total strength approximately 1,500

All unit strengths are as at November 14-16, except for the Canadian militia, which is for December 16.

The Fusiliers and Emigrants together apparently numbered 200, but there were also 92 recruits for the Emigrants within the city.

All Canadian militia companies except the 2eme had one captain, one captain-en-seconde, one lieutenant, and one or two ensigns; the enlisted men included 2 sergeants and 4 corporals, the balance being miliciens or privates. The 2eme Compagnie consisted entirely of volontaires and had a captain, a lieutenant, an ensign, one sergeant, one corporal, and 32 privates.

Hope that scratches the itch(es) sufficiently.

Bill N31 Mar 2017 6:25 p.m. PST

Thanks for posting this.

KPinder Supporting Member of TMP02 Apr 2017 6:20 p.m. PST

Many thanks SM.

k

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.