"Morion à Bannière" Topic

Hi. Does anybody know what this 16th century term refers to? Is it literally a morion with a banner attached to it, or is a particular type of morion? It is used in Henri III's ordonnance of 1574, for example. Thanks.

Something here :

link

Not,apparently, a morion with a banner,as he says it has a plume,but so called because he was attached to the company of a "banneret"--a class of knights. In this case,I believe it means he (the knight) could lead a body of troops under his own banner.

I could stand correction. My French is,to put it mildly, rusty.

Interesting. At link is the text of one of Charles the Bold's ordonnances from the 1470s, listing among the man-at-arms's equipment "salade à bannière, barbute ou armet"; in this case the sallet "à bannière" is just another sort of helmet, one of several options available to the ordinary man-at-arms (it's quite distinct from the banderoles worn on the helmet by officers). Therefore I am not inclined to give much credence to Mergey's editor's speculative linking of the bannière with the obsolete rank of banneret.

Aha!! I've just found link with the paragraph:

There are several Venetian salades in good condition, with the T-shaped opening for the eyes and nose, a return to the form in favour of ancient Greece. The term "barbute" is often given to these helmets, or to the large bascinet with projecting cheek-plates. As a matter of fact, we are still uncertain as to the meaning of the word, except that it was a headpiece with some sort of chin protection; for Oliver de la Marche distinctly speaks of a la baviere de sa barbute. The word barbute was also used for a man-at-arms, as we learn from DuCange. With regard to the word baviere, it is interesting to note that Buchon has transcribed the words bascinet a baviere as bachinet a banniere in his edition of St. Remy's description of Agincourt, which shows how careless he was as to the descriptions of armour.

So what if the same error has taken place, and Mergey's "morion à bannière" was originally "morion à bavière", that is a morion with a bevor? That is exactly the reading adopted at link :

M. des Chenez se mit en chemin pour exécuter sa charge, et moy avec luy, sur un petit cheval fort viste, ayant en ma tête en morion à bavière avec un beau pennache et un javelot de brezil

That would be something not unlike this: link

GurKhan, I guess you could be right about Mergey, but my principle reference was not from here but the 1574 ordonnance: "Voulons l'homme d'arme être armé d'armet, ou habillement de tête, fermé (sans y recevoir aucun morions, encore qu'ils eussent bannière)" and "L'archer portera armet, ou bourguignotte, sans qu'il puisse avoir morion à bannière."

OK, grafthomond, but I think the same argument applies – indeed, perhaps even more strongly. The requirement for the man-at-arms is for a closed helmet, such as an armet or similar, so morions – which are open helmets – are not allowed _unless_ they are "à bannière". Now if that was originally "à bavière", it makes perfect sense, because the bevor transforms an open morion into a helmet with face-protection.

I don't know what text of the 1574 ordonnance you're using – link perhaps? – but the version at link spells "banière" with one n, which makes an error for "bavière" more likely; and the 1627 printing at link actually has "morion à bauière", with a u for v, in the "archer" sentence.

So I think "bannière" is likely to be a modern transcription error in all cases.

GuKhan, Thanks for the pointer; I looked up the earliest version I could find (a scan of the 1625 edition). Turns out the modern version I originally consulted differs from this one: "L'Archer portera harmet, ou bourguignote, sans qu'il puisse auoir morion ou banniere…".

A 1599 edition at link has "banière" in both sentences: a 1607 edition of what looks like a summary of royal ordonnances at link at page 1012, has "morion à bauière" for the archer.

Looks like we have early printed testimony for both "banière" and "bauière" spellings: I suppose n and u are easily mixed up, either when the printer's reading the original or when picking out the type. I am still inclined to think that "bauière", bevor, was probably the original – it just seems to make so much more sense.

It's been an interesting little exercise, anyway!

GuKhan. Thanks for the additional versions. It is rather confusing, but I have to agree with you that 'bavière' makes a lot more sense, given the context, than 'banière'.

I thought this was going to be to do with the helmet with a little banner on it you get in some Perry miniatures plastic boxes.

That little banner is the banderole mentioned in the third post, worn as identification by officers in the Burgundian ordonnances of the 1470s. Not still in use by the 1570s, the period grafthomond is investigating.

Ah that's interesting, I didn't realise it was a real thing, thought they'd put it in there as a joke! Just goes to show.