"M113 defensive measures" Topic

I ran across a reference to US forces using chain link fence or barb wire bundles as an anti-RPG measure. My Google fu has failed me and I cannot track down an image of how this would have looked.

Is this an accurate report or urban myth?

I ran across a reference to US forces using chain link fence or barb wire bundles as an anti-RPG measure. My Google fu has failed me and I cannot track down an image of how this would have looked.

Is this an accurate report or urban myth?

I have only ever seen them as a big roll on the front of the tank. I wonder if they only do it when they are standing still

Yep. Looks like its setup for nighttime defense

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yes it was used when stationary the British used wrinkly tin in the same way.

Fatman

Park it and set up the fence for overnight.
The fence could actually prematurely set off an RPG or even get one caught in the link.

Sounds a bit funny nut it works.

If you think that this looks odd, wait until you run into pictures of T34/85s in Berlin. Where they took bed mattresses and burn all the material out to leave the springs behind. They then put that around the turrets to try to stop panzerfausts!

Regarding the mattress on T34s. From what I've read recently that is more of an urban myth based on defences which were actually manufactured for that purpose which resembled bed frames and not actual bed frames. Stills, they look good on the tanks.

Yes, in Vietnam that was a technique used against RPGs & B40s rounds. Both are HEAT rounds and the probe on the tip must hit something solid to detonate. Plus the round does not move that fast so it would have little chance of penetrating the chain link fence.

As troopwo noted, by keeping the fence a short distance in front of the M113 hull. The round will detonate before it can do damage/hit the hull. As again it is a HEAT round, not Solid Shot, etc.

I commanded an M113 Mech Co. '87-'89. We didn't talk much about this technique. But we did use sand bags occasionally. Regardless, if going against a Warsaw Pact unit. RPGs would be the least of your worries. Especially with the M113.

However, if need be the chain link fence technique could be used if required. When stopping and setting up in an NDP, laager, etc., for an extended period of time, etc. … Getting the fence would not be a problem in most cases …

Part of the reason all that extra kit was slung on the outside of M551 turrets, and other tanks in Vietnam as well.

I have some 1/285 ISM Israeli M-113s cast with rolls of chain-link strapped to the front.

I've installed and supervised installation of chain link and 'pig wire.' We used a lot of 'pig wire' (much 'heavier gauge version of 'chicken wire') to protect bunkers and entry control points. You want 10 – 15 feet of standoff from the structure (or vehicle) your protecting.

I've seen an RPG round that had "caught" in a chain link fence. I understand that sometimes fences will detonate them (if the fuse hits just right on a piece of wire in the fence), but apparently they get caught far more often.

@apache6 I read that as well much like bar/slat armour the idea was to catch the fins before detonation .

As Apache noted. I'd think they'd get caught more often than detonating … There are more "holes" between the wire links than otherwise. And 10-15 ft. standoff sounds like a good SOP.

And as you can see as with the Stryker today. They mounted a "Turkey Cage" around it's hull with bar or slat type "armor". As like with the VC guerillas, the Mid East Insurgents use(d) a lot of RPGs. And places like the jungle or urban terrain are perfect locations to effectively use those type of Infantry AT weapons … In an ambush or otherwise …
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May look "odd", but whatever gets you back home alive is a good idea, I'd think …

There's a book about the 3/4 Cav in III and IV Corps during '67-'69, and in it there are 2 photos of RPG-7 rounds caught in their NDP fences. I can't recall the books name, and they are all boxed in the garage at the moment during our reno. If I remember I'll take a look in a couple of weeks.

Of course, one of the best M113 defensive measures is to hide it behind something really solid. Like ridge line or very thick wall.

Plus as always, dismount as soon as you can as often as you can. And get a little distant between you and the track !

But those "techniques" are not always applicable to the tactical situation, etc., … unfortunately …

Maybe it was a pic of an M551 (not an M113) I'm remembering that had some chainlink fence rigged across the bow for RPG-catching… As in, two stakes bolted/welded to the hull to support the fencing. Must be in the Osprey book on the Sheridan, but I'm having a tough time finding that pic online.

From what I have read, the M551 Sheridan was extremely vulnerable to RPG hits, with an almost certain risk of fire or explosion due to the caseless propellant of its 152mm main gun.

B

The M551 just like the M113 were very vulnerable to RPGs. And that is still a fact today. As some M113s are still around in a number of armies.

Light armor does not do well vs. HEAT rounds.