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"African Neolithic Populations Helped Create Sahara Desert" Topic

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Tango0116 Mar 2017 3:09 p.m. PST

""In East Asia there are long established theories of how Neolithic populations changed the landscape so profoundly that monsoons stopped penetrating so far inland," said Dr. Wright, an assistant professor in the Department of Archaeology and Art History at Seoul National University, Seoul, South Korea.

"Evidence of human-driven ecological and climatic change has been documented in Europe, North America and New Zealand. Similar scenarios could also apply to the Sahara."

To test his hypothesis, Dr. Wright reviewed archaeological evidence documenting the first appearances of pastoralism the use of extensive grazing on rangelands for livestock production across the Saharan region…"

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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Mar 2017 3:14 p.m. PST

So the end of the Ice Age had nothing to do with it? Everything is man's fault, even though the population was sparse?


Tango0116 Mar 2017 3:18 p.m. PST

Remember Adam and Eve?… we are guilty of all my friend!… (smile)


Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut16 Mar 2017 3:23 p.m. PST

HUmans are always messing with the environment.

Global warming!

Great Barrier Reef!

Polar bears!


Bubonic plague!


The list goes on and on…

wminsing Inactive Member16 Mar 2017 3:42 p.m. PST

It is a plausible theory. Until they do the proposed lake bed drilling though the evidence is lacking. This wouldn't be the first time that we have seen pre-industrial civilazations do this though; there are other examples.


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Mar 2017 3:55 p.m. PST

Ice Age glacial melt affected currents which, in turn, affected rain pattern (monsoons) and dried out the inland seas/marshes.

The extremely few people living there at the time had little to nothing to do with that.

Stop trying to pin every single weather change on humanity.


Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP16 Mar 2017 4:39 p.m. PST

hey Mention Man made climate changes and you'll get funded. That is always the most important thing in
Science nowadays..

wminsing Inactive Member16 Mar 2017 4:43 p.m. PST

Ice Age glacial melt affected currents which, in turn, affected rain pattern (monsoons) and dried out the inland seas/marshes.

Another plausible theory. Also does not have definitive proof.

The extremely few people living there at the time had little to nothing to do with that.

But recent archaeological findings have revealed it may not have been so few people. Hence why this is worth investigating via the lakebed drilling project.

Stop trying to pin every single weather change on humanity.

Of course not every single change is caused by humans. The weather changed a lot before humans ever existed. But human-caused desertification has occurred within the span of recorded history, and it may have occurred here. Surely there can't be any harm in studying it further?


JMcCarroll Inactive Member16 Mar 2017 4:45 p.m. PST

" Stop trying to pin every single weather change on humanity. " wait a minute, there is a whole industry based on this false claim. How can you get a doctorate if you can't prove humans are to blame. Just do what Al Gore does. Drive around in huge gas hogs and do as he says, not as he does!

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Mar 2017 5:43 p.m. PST

Facts: The ice sheets drew moisture in their direction and created vast areas of dry land immediately in front of the glaciers. Then we entered a warming period. Ice melted. That water raised sea levels and the new coastlines created changes in ocean currents. At exactly the same time (based on the age of the fish and animal bones, and water and sediments in the aquifers), rain stopped falling in North Africa and started raining down on what used to be the dryer areas. Monsoon rains stop falling in North Africa, the inland seas/marshes dry up, the deserts grow, merge and become the Sahara we know today.

So, unless they can find bones of millions and millions of goats in an area that had so few people, my money is on Nature as cause, and not on the tiny population of humans living there at the time..

PS. @JMcCarroll: "Just do what Al Gore does. Drive around in huge gas hogs and do as he says, not as he does!"


Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian16 Mar 2017 6:10 p.m. PST

How is it we get stupider as we get smarter.

Cyrus the Great16 Mar 2017 10:58 p.m. PST

A skinny lumberjack shows up at a lumber camp looking for work.
He is told, "You don't have what it takes. We're looking for someone big and strong.
" The skinny lumberjack replies, "Give me a chance to show you what I can do."
The boss replies, "Ok, see that giant tree over there, go cut it down."
The skinny lumberjack cuts it down without breaking a sweat.

"Wow!" says the boss, "Where did you learn how to cut trees like that?"
"In the Sahara Forest." the lumberjack replies.
"You mean the Sahara Desert?" says the boss.
"Well sure, that's what they call it now!" laughs the lumberjack.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Mar 2017 4:19 a.m. PST

If the melting of massive glaciers in the past didn't change the weather patterns back then, does that mean that we can now stop talking about the current ice sheets? :)


PS. Lower sea levels blocked currents:


Borathan Inactive Member17 Mar 2017 10:50 p.m. PST

I tend to prefer the Wet/Dry Sahara Cycle theory more, there was evidence presented that show at least a few cycles there where this seems to link the cycle to humans, which wouldn't be possible due to the periods of it predating humanity…

wminsing Inactive Member18 Mar 2017 12:17 p.m. PST

But that doesn't mean that human activity can't influence an existing natural cycle. We are still short on data to know exactly one way or another.


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2017 1:19 p.m. PST

You need lots of those Neolithic human-ants to affect an elephant's path.


wminsing Inactive Member18 Mar 2017 2:15 p.m. PST

Probably true, but we don't know exactly how many ants there were and how sensitive that elephant was. Just think it's worth investigating. If the theory is dead wrong that's good to know too.


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2017 11:27 p.m. PST

Sure. As long as it's privately funded.


hindsTMP Supporting Member of TMP22 Mar 2017 4:41 p.m. PST

Cacique Caribe:

Apparently you are one of those people who first decides on what they want to be true, and then cherry-pick arguments to support what they want. Makes sense to me (…).


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP28 Mar 2017 10:47 p.m. PST

Yes. You have me all figured out. I make all my decisions with no information whatsoever and then look for only those sources which happen to support my preconceived ideas. Lol

I think that's what happened also with our environmentally careless European ancestors, when they caused the Republic of Doggerland to flood:


The Earth's climate has been unlivable since then. And humans have now dwindled down to just a handful worldwide. :)


keyhat18 Apr 2017 3:48 p.m. PST

You have nailed it. In Oil and Gas Exploration the concept of Global Sea Level curves have been used since the late 60's.
The empirical basis for this was published in AAPG Memoir 26 based on work by Exxon scientists. Since that time these curves have been refined and used literally several hundred, if not a few thousand times in exploration projects.

They demonstrate that global sea level (i.e. planet wide) has fluctuated greatly hundreds of times in the geologic past, 99% of which occurred before mankind was even around. These fluctuations can vary by several orders of magnitude, and occur in first through fourth order cycles, in an almost fractile like pattern.

These sea level fluctuations are caused by successive waves of temperature increase followed by cooling. An excellent example can be seen by the multiple ice ages occurring just since the Pleistocene.
Currently, we appear to be at the end of a low stand and ready to begin another cycle of sea-level rise.This has nothing to do with whether or not mankind is present on the planet or not.

Paleoclimate studies using then existing mountain ranges, known current patterns (from studying paleo sand bars, and depositional sedimentary structures and paleolatitude) are fairly advanced and have been used for years with seismic sequence stratigraphy to successfully predict ephemeral lakes, potential sandstone reservoirs and marine shale seals and source rock in projects costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

Many of the universities currently working on man made global warming were engaged in these same paleoclimate studies just a few years ago. Unfortunately, with that work almost finished, oil dollars drying up and lots of government money available to study "global warming", that is the current focus. Many of these same people are engaged in doing what pays and are willfully ignoring what they know from their previous work.


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 2:31 a.m. PST

Careful there Keith. :)



Tango0129 Apr 2017 12:52 p.m. PST



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