"Newcomer to Moderns has questions" Topic

Hi friends,

A couple weeks ago, one of my gaming buddies showed me his new 1/285 GHQ modern Russian infantry and vehicles. They looked really good, and I'm seriously thinking about building a small force to oppose his Russians. I've considered US, German, British and Israelis, maybe even Chinese or others. At the moment, I'm leaning toward US forces.

The truth is, I don't know much about modern land warfare, at least compared to other historical periods that I've been interested in over the years. I'd like to know more about everything: TOEs, weapon types and capabilities, tactics, doctrine, uniforms, you name it.

My buddy and I haven't settled on a set of rules either. I believe my friend is braver than me about tackling more complex rules, so I might have to be flexible in that regard. But if you know of any modern land rules of moderate complexity, hearing about them would be welcome news.

So if you have any reference or rules suggestions, either in print or on the Internet, I'd greatly appreciate hearing from you. I've done some light searching myself and have gleaned some information, but not as much as I'd like.

Thanks in advance!

Jeff

One disclaimer: I am not currently a modern gamer so I should just shut up already but..

I hear really good things about Fist full of Tows.
fft3.com
I have read a few of the rules and they seem very sensible and playable but it is a really huge set of rules for better or worse.

Team Yankee by battlefront is new and popular and would probably be great in 1/285th (in 15mm you will see lines of T-72s shoulder to shoulder FoW style which I'm not a fan of)

For army list info Wargame vault has a ton of micromark modern army lists for a buck or two per list

When you say "modern" are you thinking of cold war, fictional present day conflicts (as in, war breaks out tomorrow, what gear do we have?) or specific conflicts like the Gulf?

Book stores tend to be good about books with specifications for all manner of tanks and Ospreys can help with books on particular armies.

How much stuff do you guys want to have on the table?
Do you want to command tank battalions or do you want to do foot patrols in a dusty city somewhere?

Fistful of TOW's is wonderful for big battles and has stats for more equipment than any other game I've ever seen.

If you want to command a few battalions, I'd look at Modern Spearhead.

For the platoon level, Force on Force is well recommended and if you want a more campaign-oriented "dirt and mud" infantry platoon level look, I'd suggest my own "No End in Sight".
link

Jeff,

If you were willing to go slightly earlier (a lot of the kit is interchangeable for both sides) you could try Team Yankee.

I don't think it is a great set of rules but it is a great beginners set of rules. Battlefront has gotten very good at pulling new people into a genre and providing a good, solid introduction to the time period.

I'm not a FOW guy but Team Yankee is a good solid game.

Dan

"Modern" extends from the 1950s to the present day, so you may want to ponder that a bit as well.

Lots of rules discussions in the TMP archives under "Modern", "Ultra-Modern", and "Cold War" headings, so I suggest perusing those a bit.

Also, many discussions/arguments over which scale of vehicles and troops to use too.

link Essential.

link Interactive training book intended as a sort of modern "Defense of Duffer's Drift." Title is based on Rommel's "Infantry Attacks."

link The current National Security Advisor's account of commanding at the Battle of 73 Easting.

First Clash is probably the most fun to read.

Might add that even though its written for 15mm, a lot of people play Team Yankee in 6mm.

Gentlemen, I thank you all!

I'm guessing that my buddy and I would be playing company level games, perhaps on a one-to-one scale.

You're right about needing to be more specific the term "modern." FWIW, I was thinking 1980s to the present (still a twenty-seven year stretch of time.)

Jeff

That'll work, though for the communists, you may need a battalion of armor, since vehicles die pretty quickly, depending upon which rules system you use.

My general rule of thumb is you need 2x – 3x the number of vehicles that NATO fields for a decent game, if the rules account for being on defense, and getting bonuses for that, not to mention their superior equipment generally, in some/many cases. So, pitting a Soviet/WARPAC company vs. a NATO platoon, or a battalion vs. a company, respectively, works fairly well.

If you are interested in the Team Yankee rules, make sure to sign up for their forum.

Lots of interesting stuff to read there about the rules and models/minis.

Team Yankee in 285 is awesome.
GHQ is suburb, but C in C is a very close second and a lot cheaper.
I'd start with:
10 Abrams
10-12 M113s
3-4 SP Art
3-4 SPAA vehicles
2-4 Cobra helicopters
a few Blackhawk Helocopters
For infantry, go with Main Force, from Magister Militum. Great service. Most of the figures are prone. You only paint half! A couple are standing, like the stinger and officer (stupid officers!). Prices are good too and they have group deals.

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to Modern Wargaming. I hope you enjoy the experience.

I would strongly suggest you consider the level of game you are interested in. Skirmish level, company actions, battalion engagements or brigade or divisional actions.

Over the years I tried a few rules but settled on Modern Spearhead which allows me to play reinforced brigade actions in an evening and larger actions in a day. I play Arab-Israeli games set in '67 or 73 and Cold War games in the 1980s.

As some inspiration I have a few photos here:
modernspearhead.wordpress.com

Jeigheff:

If the US Army is the force you want then I'd recommend the following as a good kit pool for your US forces:

14 X M1A1 Abrams MBT's
14 X M2/M3 Bradley AIFV's.
1 X Mech Company of Infantry and support weapons.
4 X M901 TOW and one FIST vehicle. (The FIST looks almost identical to the M901 at this scale).
6 X M125 Mortar Carriers, 2 X M113 APC's and 1 X M557 Comm. APC
4 X M106 Mortar Carriers, 2 X M113 APC's and 1 X M557 Comm. APC
6 X M109A1 155mm SP How, 2 X M113 and 2 X M557 Comm. APC's.
2-4 M-163 Vulcan SPAA APC's
2 X OH58 Kiowa Scout Helicopters.
4 X AH64 Apache Attack Helicopters with Longbow radar dome.
2-4 A10 Warthog Attack planes.

As time goes on you would upgrade the Abrams to M1A2 status, lose the OH58 Kiowas and upgrade the artillery to the newer M109A6/A7 Paladin and FAASV family of vehicles.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Go with 6 x M106s/M125s, since that's how they were fielded, and they look virtually identical – only difference is the size of the mortar tubes, and perhaps different base plates for them.

Also, as I mentioned, historically, Soviets/Warsaw Pact had about a 3:1 ratio advantage in terms of armor, so that's pretty historical, and challenging for the Americans, too.

There is a huge difference between war fighting in the late twentieth century and early twenty first.

1980s is WW2 with radios and vehicles which work (mostly), 21st century is GPS, computers, precision weapons, drines etc.

Personally, I find the Cold War a lot more fun than tripping over IEDs in Afghanistan, but have a think about what period you want to do.

Guys, thanks again! You've given me plenty to consider. I also appreciate the US force ideas from d88 and Rod.

Jeff

If you're going for a company per side (that's my game scale too for 6mm), Sabre Squadron is my preferred choice, and it has 1980s guide books available too.

Basic rules are available here for free: sabresquadron.com/index.html

For that scale though, you won't need SPGs or other artillery, they're waaaaay off the board, unless you're doing an overrun scenario.

For larger battles (brigade per side), Weasel's Brigade Commander is what I'm looking at (though in 3mm), and for smaller actions in 15mm, Force On Force is in the lead.

I still haven't decided for my 15mm 1980s forces… I have Armoured Strike, Rapid Fire/Able Archer, Tank Wreck, No End In Sight and Company Command

For my 3mm forces I am using Brigade Commander.

The problem with my 15mm forces is that I can't budget a whole lot in any given month (and have to build forces for both sides). I am almost tempted to start with the Rapid Fire/Able Archer or Company Command just so I can get into it a little quicker. My problem is I always want to play epic games though.

I also agree with Martin. The 80s make for a good fight. Anything later makes it to where you kill it faster than you can set it up.

If you plan company level games, another vote for Sabre Squadron.

I'd second Sabre Squadron for company level.

Weasel's rules are full of great ideas even if you don't play them as written (which I do, just not so much for cold-war-gone-hot-type moderns).

The budget solution is to do infantry platoon actions in 15mm and battalion actions in 6mm or 3mm :-)

Weasel, there is a logic there that I am sure to defy.

3mm individual skirmish actions and a 15mm 1-to-1 scale battalion level battle? :-D

I am sure 3mm No End In Sight is perfectly rational.

Another vote for Sabre Squadron. For company level games it has, IMHO, a good mix of detail without getting bogged down. For larger level games, FFT is my group's go-to rules.

I actually tried to separate out some 3mm guys from Picoarmour to scatter them around a BMP stand, and when I snipped them, one of the little communists flew across the living room and vanished, no doubt becoming the start of the Soviet space program!