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"Dinky Toys Casting ????" Topic


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805 hits since 5 Mar 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

jah1956 Inactive Member05 Mar 2017 3:40 p.m. PST

I have been told that Mattel the copyright holder of Dinky Toys does not hold the copyright for the moulds just the trade name. This happened as before Dinky collapsed Dinky sold the casting rights/moulds to a number of other companies so nobody owns the casting rights (at least not in the EU) This is why there are a number of people selling (legally???) recasts of Dinky toys on EBAY.
Comments please

John Armatys05 Mar 2017 6:08 p.m. PST

"…. This happened as before Dinky collapsed Dinky sold the casting rights/moulds to a number of other companies so nobody owns the casting rights"

Somebody owns them!

And selling recasts without the consent of the rights holder isn't legal (even if outside the EU and even if it is done on eBay) unless the original is so old as to be out of copyright.

jowady05 Mar 2017 6:41 p.m. PST

q>This happened as before Dinky collapsed Dinky sold the casting rights/moulds to a number of other companies so nobody owns the casting rights (at least not in the EU)

Just because you say that no one owns the casting right ergo no one owns the copyright isn't true. And whoever owns the copyright owns, unless they have conveyed them, the casting rights. If you are planning on going into the business of making copies of Dinky Toys I would really suggest a search to see who actually holds those rights (pretty easily done by an attorney)rather than going by what someone has told you. Now if those rights and the original copyright have been help up by bankruptcies and the like the enforcement can become messy, however when it is cleared up a lot of people can be in a lot of trouble. More and more copyright infringement is being looked upon as a crime.

jah1956 Inactive Member05 Mar 2017 7:53 p.m. PST

jowady Yes I agree with :most : of what you say But when Mattel bought the company which had bought Dinky, Dinky had sold the master moulds and the casting rights years before to a number of other companies. Now why are people selling on EBAY and the Web Dinky recasts and stating that these are recasted copies. Now I would think they would be shut down or blocked by the copyright holder yes??? Also it seems/looks like they will not sell or advertise in the USA. I am not saying that there is no copyright but am wondering/asking if anybody knows anything.
John Armatys Being sold in the EU but see above not USA
Now one thought has occurred to me is that Mattel or one of the companies it owns had bought the rights for the USA. before Dinky collapsed.

I have no facts about what I have written about this except for the Sales on Ebay the net and a number of trade shows. And yes copyright infringement is a crime.

Warning OMW (Old Man Waffle) below

A practise I work with years ago were asked to defend some people who had/were printing T shirts with a very famous company logo on them their defence was the T shirts had been ordered by another party and they were just filling that order. When the lawyers told them that this defence was not going to get them very far they left to get new lawyers

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP05 Mar 2017 9:00 p.m. PST

If someone is selling recasts on eBay, they're probably not doing it legally. More likely, they are getting away with it because whoever holds the rights doesn't know about it.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP05 Mar 2017 9:27 p.m. PST

That would be my guess as well.

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member05 Mar 2017 11:46 p.m. PST

People tend to make assumptions that, just because the owner isn't known, then they have the right to take that item for themselves. Here is an example where that assumption went badly wrong:

link

'There's no such thing as 'finders keepers': Woman, 23, who found a £20.00 GBP note in a shop is convicted of theft'

shaun from s and s models Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

there was a company called B&B military who used to make dinky style and dinky recasts.
they always had an advert in military modeling in the 80's
one of the chaps died and his partner did not want to carry on on his own much longer, when he died his widow sold the rights to the moulds and all the parts to another man, i forgot his name, but the chap who actualy had the moulds did not give them back and took them to the netherlands to carry on casting them, this was quite a while ago, not sure if he is still doing them but not seen anything of the models for years.
they do crop up on ebay every now and then, not sure if the original B&B military had any agrement with dinky or who ever owns the rights, they never had any legal problems as far as i am aware. i wonder who actualy has the rights to them myself?

jah1956 Inactive Member06 Mar 2017 9:39 a.m. PST

shaun from e and s models
Thank you very much for your input I think repeat I think that the reason it is so unclear is that with the EU you cannot have sole rights in one country and Dinky sold the rights to so many people that no one copyright holder can take any action to stop somebody from copying Dinky products. But as Mattel is American they can but only in the US. If you remember BMW and Mercedes had a similar problem with Rolls Royce one had the rights to build the cars the other owned the name.
The other thing is if a small company is recasting the first step is a stop and desist order with the rider you the copyright holder are suffering financial loss. But you would have to prove that you owned the copy right. However Mattel own the name 100% so you would have (BIG)problems if you called your product Dinky saying it is a recast can be use as another way of saying in the style of. Also I wonder if some of the older stuff is still even in copyright.

And now the real nerd stuff a list of the Dinky Companies that I know of, that had the rights to produce some or all of the Dinky Toy range.

Dinky UK.
Dinky Northern Ireland
Dinky Chile
Dinky France
Dinky Hong Kong
Dinky India
Dinky South Africa
Dinky Spain.
Now a list of the companies that owned or had some or all of the copyrights to produce Dinky Toys

Meccano
Airfix
Atamco Ltd.
Auto Pilen
Borden Inc.
Humbrol ??
Line Brothers Ltd.
Marklin ??
Nicky Toys
Novades Poch Company
Palitoy
Pocket Money Toys
Matchbox Mattel
Rovex Scale Models Ltd
S. Kumbar & Co.
Spot On
Tri Ang
So as anybody can see the copyright and licence to produce Dinky Toys is a clear as mud outside of the USA

shaun from s and s models Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2017 10:27 a.m. PST

yes seems a minefield.
we were given permission by the person who now owns the old b&b range to reproduce them, but we have not done any as yet.
too busy on the 1/72 so far!

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