"I Ain't Been Shot Mum Mods" Topic

All,

I've played quite a few games of IABSM; while I have some issues with the card-driven activation system, it still intrigues me. I want to try again, and I'm realizing part of my frustration is the combat system.

Has anyone tried a simpler combat mechanism, and wouldn't mind sharing?

I understand very well how the number of actions per squad/section are tied to/impacted by remaining members of the squad/section, and how 'shock' plays into it. It's very clever, but it's simply more complicated than I want to deal with at company level, particularly playing solo.

I'm looking for something more along the lines of 1 base is one squad/section (not single figure removal), and combat results are along the lines of:
Pinned (shoot at penalty, melee with penalty, won't move until rallied)
Suppressed (melee at greater penalty, no move or shoot until rallied)
Combat ineffective (stand removed)

Vehicles are in the fight, out of the fight, or driven back to rally.

I've also thought about 'regular' units get two actions, pinned 1 (move, shoot, or rally), suppressed 1 (rally only, or maybe even 0, have to be rallied by a Big Man). Maybe elite units start with 3 actions, really poor units with 1?

Anyone tried this, or any thoughts on how to go about it?

V/R,
Jack

I like the system as written although Rich has no issues with gamers adding house rules, but you may be heading in a very different direction. Please give it another try. There is also resources on the TOOFATLardies site toofatlardies.co.uk and on Facebook link

Jon
lebanon1982.blogspot.com

Well Jack you and I have talked a little in the past about this set of rules. I love certain elements of IABSM but I would have preferred ("insisted on" is probably more accurate) a simpler dice roll instead of consulting charts.

I differ from you in that I immediately loved the card driven activation mechanic. I thought it allowed for introducing methods for increasing the effectiveness of elite troops by adding extra cards into the deck. 'Elite move'etc…I actually spent a lot of effort and time making a few rather large customized decks for various armies. So I guess rather than giving "extra actions" I gave an extra move card or extra MG card (depending on the typical popular view of the troop type) British Airborne taking Pegasus would have extra "mission cards" in the initial turns of the scenario to represent the advantages of the element of surprise and through repetitive training they would have preformed prior to the drop.

The cards added a little of the "unknown quality" which really improves the solo game experience for me.

I'd love to see you work out a system that could remove the dreaded fire chart. (I appreciate some people love it but I didn't.) I'd be more than willing to test them out.

The Big Man was another serious reason I loved it. My entire subjective understanding of small unit combat is based on years of listening to my older brother's friends talk of him in various fire fights and how he inspired those around him; coupled with my own experience of sports where tough men would capitulate under certain circumstances(many UN army men I would add) helped reinforce this concept of certain individuals leading by their ability to think decisively and competently under pressure. At a certain level of combat I love to flavor in these types of individuals. Makes the game far more interesting to me.

I'm a massive fan of random movement because I believe it removes a degree of "gaming certainty" that fixed movement ranges allows. The rifle team moving across the street are certain of the German MG team not opening fire if they're not on overwatch and the distance is less than 6 inches. That's crap a dee crap in my gaming world. There should never be that certainty in those circumstances. The hapless team roll their two running dice and get a 2 and a 1 curse their luck that the MG open fires as they leave the building rather than them moving across with their laces tied together: The random die score represents the combination of time and space and not SPEED! Perhaps elite or vets could have a +1 to their movement die.

I remember employing a FoW type firing mechanism with it and I loved it. Stand vs stand. The target stand's quality of troops dictating the cases of being hit. (I always loved that concept of the elite troops being more difficult to hit.) I'm a fan of two levels of moral status eg pinned and suppressed. So 1 hit pinned, 2 suppressed and 3 unit ineffective so removed.

Edit: On a side note, I'm loving a set of skirmish RPG rules called "Pulp Alley" that use a really neat reactionary fire fight mechanic. It has made me yearn a similar type fire system in wargames. I have seen NUTS with its reactions but there was too many lists to look over for me. This is very intuitive. Also loved Ivan's Space Scum video that is on TMP. Worth watching for the firefight mechanics that you'll be familiar with I'm sure. One feature was a poor shooting attempt allowed the target to return fire which I thought was nifty.

YouTube link

Jack,
Do you have the Lardy specials? I wrote 3 articles for TW&Ts that converted it into something I liked better. They were called "Lazy TW&T". It removed the combat chart and replaced it with dice rolls, added morale rolls and changed opportunity fire. It was bolt on and you could pick the stuff you wanted to add. Have never played IABSM but think the combat is similar. Wonder if that would work. I am with War Panda on the cards; rather fancy them though I really like my modified activation system from combat patrol the best.

Joe

PS Also agree with WP on random movement for the reasons he stated. Plus as a solo gamer it adds tension. I have even added it to SAGA!

I love the Lardies games, but also appreciate what you are saying. I think what you are asking about though might be better served by a look at 5 Core's game Company Command. I've been playing it solo with some of the solo elements from Nuts!

Jon – Thanks.

Panda – YOU ARE NOT the guy to be talking to about simplifying things ;) I'm with you on your perspective of the card activation, that wasn't what I had problems with. For what it's worth, I'm getting over my problems by going higher echelon. I'm also a fan of the mechanism for solo play, and I love the 'Big Men' and random (diced) movement concepts.

As you mentioned, it's the firing chart. I don't mind the subjective aspect of the determination of type of shot (good, poor, etc…), but then looking at the table to see which figures/weapons were left and had reasonable LOS, how many Shock they had, rolling, looking to see what happened, adding four more Shock to the target's file, looking to see what tests that caused the target to make, was too much for me. I'm not saying it doesn't work, it's just too granular for my tastes in a game where I have a company+ per side on the table.

I also have Pulp Alley and like the mechanics, but I don't know that it's WWII for me. Though someone posted a Normandy batrep using Pulp Alley on TMP not long ago.

Joe – I don't have all the Specials, but I do have a slew of them, I'll have to look. It seems I recall seeing your articles, but didn't pay too much attention as I'm not familiar with TW&T.

Daler – You're absolutely right, and an option I'm looking at is simply porting over 5Core's combat/morale roll to IABSM's activation and random (diced) movement. I'm a huge fan of 5Core, particularly Company Command; I'm closing in on 200 batreps using 5Core.

V/R,
Jack

I also have Pulp Alley and like the mechanics, but I don't know that it's WWII for me

Well no; but I thought the mechanic itself was kind of cool. I think a reactionary fire mech might be adaptable

And the Fire-chart killed the game for me. But the rest is pure goodness imo. I think I might try FoW or Ivan's 5core. I might even try a game tonight. I always wanted someone to do the work for me to be honest because I'm always critically obsessed with my own attempts. Let us know what you eventually try.

"…I recall seeing your articles, but didn't pay too much attention…"
Horror Jack
The Horror!!!

Joe

Panda – I'm thinking of using IABSM's card-based activation, Big Men, and random (diced for) movement, alongside 5Core combat/morale, with 'regular' troops getting two actions, pinned gets one (move or fire or rally), and suppressed gets none (must be rallied by Big Man) or one (rally only), haven't decided.

Joe – Dammit, that was "…didn't pay too much attention…" due to them being for TW&T, a set of rules I was never much interested in (nothing against them, just I've got platoon-level rules). You're killing me ;)

How about both of you quit messing around and actually play some game and post some batreps! ;)

V/R,
Jack

That's fighting talk Joe. Fighting talk :D

Panda,

I get why you figure you need help, but come on! Hop out of your booster chair and come get me! ;)

Or play some games and post some batreps!

V/R,
Jack

I also have Pulp Alley and like the mechanics, but I don't know that it's WWII for me

Well no; but I thought the mechanic itself was kind of cool

And the Fire-chart killed the game for me. But the rest is pure goodness imo. I think I might try FoW or Ivan's 5core. I might even try a game tonight. I always wanted someone to do the work for me to be honest because I'm always critically obsessed with my own attempts. Let us know what you eventually try.

Panda,

I am with you – I really like IABSM but the only thing I did not like was the infantry combat chart. I am not that fond of random movement either, but in IABSM it made sense and ties in nicely with the other mechanisms.

No idea how that second post of mine appeared I didn't post it?!?

Jack, calm down man I've no intention of taking you to task on your behavior. I'm well used to it at this stage. I've already too many kids around hear without adopting another ;)

Are you familiar with Fireball Forward's card based activation? I thought the 'simplicity' of it might appeal to you.

Shaun, did you ever try to employ anything different yourself? It pains me to admit it but old Jack might have an idea using Ivan's firing rules/

Any gaming recently?

Jack and Panda,
Anything I write should be read immediately regardless of topic because by definition it will be brilliant and useful beyond all telling.
Am not posting right now because I have been playing SAGA, Dynasty baseball and Race Formula 90. ( Have to branch out now and then to keep everything fresh). Didn't think anyone wanted to read about that stuff.

Joe

Just Jack. I liked your list of the mods you'd like to make and just wanted to let you know they are all already in Skirnish Action rules. It looks like your list came right from the rules feature list lol. Full disclosure I am the author but my reason for commenting was why go through the trouble of heavily modifying IABSM with house rules and rule tweaks when there is another set of rules that can give you what you want "out of the box". Cheers! Lee

I did employ something different but a bit too complex for what I would use now. you would roll a the number of action dice you had left and add and subtract modifiers to end up with a to hit number. Hits would reduce the number of action dice and when you hit zero the squad was removed (3 action dice for regulars, 2 for green, 4 for vets). If I was doing it today I would go with something simple such as: roll action dice. 4+ on a die is a hit. 1 hit is a pin, 2 is suppress 3 is KO. +1 die is 0-9"; -1 die is 18"+; -1 if in hard cover; +1 die if in open. Other modifiers as you see fit.

I have used something similar for my last five ww2 games.

re: gaming. Since playing the 12 year old in January – WW2 20mm games – I have had a few games of ancients (Triumph!) and am *soooo* close to playing a game in my co-op based mashup of Chaos in Cairo (for actions and plot resolution) with Pulp Alley for everything else, and also using the Pulp Alley solo deck.

Okay, let me hop back in.

Panda – I am familiar with Fireball Forward. I sold the rules but kept the cards; nothing wrong with the rules, just didn't strike me for whatever reason.

Joe – Fresh is great, but you need to get back to your Legionnaires, your evil ARVn, and/or your Canadians in Normandy, pronto!

Lee – That is very interesting; I'm not really familiar with 'Skirmish Action,' I'll have to read up on them. But you're saying they use IABSM-style activation and leadership, but with simplified combat and morale? That definitely fits the bill.

Shaun – Personally, I can't wait for your Chaos in Cairo stuff to begin. As I mentioned, I love Pulp Alley; the only thing keeping me from it is the 8,000 projects I have queued up ahead of it…

Thanks guys!

V/R,
Jack

Shaun and Panda,
Am intrigued by the Pulp alley solo deck idea. Please tell me more.

Joe

@Jack You kept the cards? Aren't they just regular cards? Unless they changed things since I played. I mentioned FF just in reference to how regular cards can be used as an activation tool.

@Shaun I'm eagerly awaiting your exploits in Cairo. (Although I was slightly saddened by the news Scooby won't be making it :D) I always love your comic reports and I'd imagine it'll be the perfect foil for Pulp Alley.

I just finished playing my first Pulp game with the kids this weekend and it was a huge hit with them. I have most of it on camera so hopefully I'll post it soon. I've been really busy with Superhero gaming as you know…still waiting on the new rules that I saw on Lead Adventure. Also painting up Strontium Dog and Judge Dredd minis and converting and rebasing over 200 heroclix sci-fi minis for an assortment of RPGs I'm starting up. I've been busy reading up Shadowrun, Savage Worlds and Traveller as well as my old GW Judge Dredd rules. I'm pretty certain I'll use Savage but Traveller's character generation has caught my groups attention; so much in fact that I reckon we'll do something with it seperate from JD and SD. I've spent a small fortune on futuristic buildings terrain and minis but with the kids I'll get use out of it one way or the other

@Joe, just let the record show that I always read whatever you write; no matter how bad it is 😀

I'm afraid I can't really help you with the pulp alley solo as I just got the solo deck this week; only after Shaun mentioned it in another thread. My Pulp Alley was intended to be played with the kids but I've just loved it recently that I'll introduce a few adults to it soon. (I use the word adults very loosely 😉)

How about you Joe? Playing SAGA, Dynasty baseball and Race Formula 90! What era or period of SAGA are you playing? I love SAGA. Haven't played it in a while. I was converting it for LotRs and found a link to someone doing the same thing. Need to take a look at it again. Too many pies :)

Jack, you kept the cards? Aren't they just regular cards? I mentioned them just in reference to how regular cards are used as an activation tool.

@Shaun I'm eagerly awaiting your exploits in Cairo. I always love your comic reports and I'm sure it'll suit pulp even more. I just finished playing my first Pulp game with the kids this weekend and it was a huge hit with them. I have most of it on camera so hopefully I'll post it soon. I've been really busy painting up Strodium Dog and Judge Dredd minis and converting and rebasing 200 heroclix sci-fi minis for an assortment of RPGs I'm starting up. I've been busy reading up Shadowrun, Savage Worlds and Traveller as well as my old GW Judge Dredd rules. I'm pretty certain I'll use Savage but Traveller's character generation has caught my groups attention so much I reckon we'll do something with it. I've spent a small fortune on futuristic buildings terrain and minis but with the kids I'll get use out of it one way or the other

@Joe, just let the record show that I always read whatever you write no matter how bad it is 😀

I'm afraid I can't really help you with the pulp alley solo as I just got the solo deck this week only after Shaun mentioned it in another thread. My Pulp Alley was intended to be played with the kids but I've just loved it recently that I'll introduce a few adults to it soon. (I use the word adults very loosely 😉)

How about you Joe? What's been in the gaming pot for you recently?

don't expect too much from the "Chaos in Pulp Alley" mashup. While the characters etc are based on Chaos in Cairo I have sped it up to combine the to hit and damage into one roll (a little similar to Void Pirates that does this). Plot points, challenges etc are pure PA. Each person will have one character, not a league and so it will be us Vs the other side, thus making it a co-op game. The solo deck will definitely be used to make it interesting. no special terrain other than what i do have and the character figures are railway HO figures. So it may not look the best but hopefully will be fun!

Jack – did the Fireball Forward rules come with cards? I only ask as I am the person you sold the FF rules to :-)

Panda – Traveller cannot be beat but only as that is what I was brought up with. Looking forward to pics of your PA game!

Really Shaun??? I'll just answer Panda.

No, Panda, the Fireball Forward rules did not come with cards. But they do make special cards for Fireball Forward, which can be purchased separately. I actually bought cards for Allies, Soviets, Germans, and Japanese, a nifty little purchase, since they didn't come with the rules. The rules weren't for me, I actually sold them. But the cards, which were purchased separately, are useful for lots of rules, so after purchasing them separately from the rules I kept them when I sold the rules.

I hope that clears everything up…

V/R,
Jack

For the record, that's me being a wiseass, I.e., trying to be funny. Didn't want any internet confusion.

V/R,
Jack

Jack – I know the fireball Forward rules did not come with cards. I forgot the smiley face icon after the first part of my question. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

No sweat man. And if I was going to screw you over, it would be something much bigger than a pack of cards ;)

No gaming again this weekend; I'm turning into you and Panda…

V/R,
Jack

Panda plays the games but posts no AARs…so I guess they did not really happen :-)

I on the other hand do not play that often!

Shaun I've played a lot its true but usually rpg or kids and both are just ruined by constantly taking photos. The JD stuff will be reported though; even if I have to go back and catalogue it afterwards

The JD stuff does sound interesting (in fact, all of what you said you were doing sounds interesting!). I was always more of a Rogue Trooper fan than JD though.

He was was pretty cool too. They did some really creative writing.

The reason JD is my favourite rpg is it offers a detective "who done it" investigation along with the sci-fi shot em up. Same with the bounty hunter Strontium Dog.

Hey folks,
Just catching up.
Panda, Great picture of your setting. Thinking of trying out the solo cards from Pulp Alley as some of my adventures are becoming "pulpy". ( Evil ARVN going to break into drug cache.)
Platoon Forward is good for the setting and relationships but not the actual "what happened". I am currently playing the new SAGA module A+A because I have always had a weakness for the Roman empire. The only time in history that the Italians are any good and I lived in Italy for two years. If you are interested I use variable movement in SAGA; PM me and I will explain it to you.
Am glad you read everything I write! You are clearly a man of discriminating taste unlike Jack. And remember, 50% of "profits" goes to my local food bank to feed the hungry.
Shaun, did I make you mad? You totally blew off my questions about Pulp Alley.
Jack, You have to keep gaming. I live through you these days. Though I just painted up some cold war Russians so will try to get them on the table this weekend.
Cheers
Joe

Hello Joe,

Not sure if I ignored you as I thought I had answered your question about how I was going to use the Pilp Alley solo deck i.e. not quite as designed as I will be using 1 person will run one figure.

but if you want to know about the Pulp Alley solo deck, here goes from a novice: The solo deck is designed for you to run your league (a team of figures) against the system and enemies, rathr than against other players. Pulp Alley uses a fortune deck that you draw, can hold some in your hand, and play as challenges for other player's leagues, and also for resolving plot points and perilous actions/areas. The solo deck mimics this by replacing the fortune deck for the solo deck. You now draw a solo card for each of the first three activated figures, and also to resolve challenges and perils and plot points. A lot of optional challenges (where another player could potentially play a card on you) are not optional. Now you must draw a solo card! The solo cards are similar to the fortune deck cards but there are more that direct a figure to do something than in the fortune deck. Note you still need to move enemies to the best of your ability so the game does not have an AI you play against, although solo deck cards will sometimes force them to do something! But the solo deck definitely is you playing against the system while trying to retrieve plot points (the aim of game after all).

And I read most of what you write on your blog to Joe :-)

"You are clearly a man of discriminating taste unlike Jack."
Ha!!! You three are lucky regarding my lack of discriminating taste! A wiser, more discriminating man would have sailed on by!

"Jack, You have to keep gaming. I live through you these days."
I'm trying man, but real life, painting projects, and a creative stump are killing me…

"Though I just painted up some cold war Russians so will try to get them on the table this weekend."
Russians??? Now what are you up to?

Shaun – That's interesting about the solo deck, thanks for explaining. I don't have it, but perhaps I need to get it.

V/R,
Jack

I have always had a weakness for the Roman empire.

hmmm could be interpreted soooo many ways and I don't like giving people the benefit of any doubt, so I'll imagine the absolute worst ;)

What minis do you use? Are these on your blog?

If you are interested I use variable movement in SAGA; PM me and I will explain it to you.

Wildo…variable movement is one of my few vices :0

WP,
Will answer your PM with my movement system for SAGA. Every 6 months I write rules to make SAGA more "realistic" which decrease the fun level so I revert back except for my movement rules. It is such a fun game! I wrote my Roman statement exactly that way as I knew Jack was a marine. I originally wrote, " I have always had a weakness for Romans" then changed it to "roman empire". Were you ever a marine? or even worse army?!?
I use a mixture of 15mm to include Khurasian, Essex and Peter Pig. Yes they are on my blog. As previously stated, don't post about SAGA as get no response when I do. Maybe will try again. Am running an Age of Wolf campaign with Maxius Velociteus. He hates the Saxons who killed his elder brother.
Shaun, as an orthopaedic surgeon you have to be specific with me! I am almost as bad as a marine. Thank you for the explanation. Will probably pick up the deck. I take it you don't have Platoon Forward, Squadron Forward, Grunts Forward or anything I have written for Wargames Illustrated; what is wrong with you!!!?!?!?! Get cracking man!
Jack, My brother gave me an Abrams and Hind helicopter for Christmas. Somehow I have decided I would like to game the Russians moving into Estonia testing our new President. I am like you now with yet another project! Need to finish my FFL first!
Cheers

Joe

I have Platoon Forward from when it was first released. it is impressive! I half completed an Excel spreadsheet to automate it but abandoned that just over a year ago. I find that every time I went to play a generated scenario, I was drawn to playing a historical scenario instead. but I do use the PF terrain generation system for the few small skirmish games i have played. I don't read the current WIs but did pick up the CDs with the PDFs when they were selling them and am slowly working through the older issues – I am only up to WI100 after 3 years and have another 100 to go!

Acquiring Squadron Forward and Grunts Forward would mean I would have to expand what I play so have not picked them up!

Shaun,
That was rhetorical! You didn't need to answer me! Am glad you liked Platoon Forward. I still generate most of my scenarios but am moving more towards a hybrid model. I will read an action and say, want to game that. So will pick the PF scenario closest to it ( usually very close) and set the board up with the key features, roll up the surrounding terrain. Pick the appropriate blind levels ( normally it is 2 blinds for every one "real" and then modify if needed. For example, when my FFL attacked the power plant I wanted to get some armor on the table. I had two "C" blinds as reinforcements. One of those was going to be a T-55 regardless of my rolls. This way the action is what I want to create but I am still somewhat surprised and have to do recon. ( which of those "Cs" is going to be that tank. Maybe both if I am really unlucky!)
WP I also use PF to roll up my boards for SAGA.

Joe

First, you all should be saying 'Marine' with a lot more fear in your voice.

Second, regarding Joe loving Romans: whatever floats your boat, buddy. It's beats the Panda showing his baser instincts every time someone brings up goats…

Modern Baltics sounds cool, hurry up! A few years ago I played a few games in the Baltics. The situation was that the wall had fallen and there was fighting between pro-Democracy and pro-Communist elements, and the French dispatched the Legion to go help sort things out.

V/R,
Jack

WP I also use PF to roll up my boards for SAGA.

Okay that's an idea Joe. I'll have to remember that. I'm really torn between what I'd like to be playing and what my kids coerce me to and what my speedily decreasing social life allows :)

It's beats the Panda showing his baser instincts every time someone brings up goats

And who can't help bringing up their favourite topic every opportunity they can?

But in fairness the Marine's life can be a lonely one (unless there's a spare goat around <kiss kiss>

First, you all should be saying 'Marine' with a lot more fear in your voice.

I'm sure you say that to all the goats

Didn't you hear? Goat has a new social meaning:
Greatest Of All Time

So I guess it really does apply to Marines.

Semper Fi,
Wolfhag