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"Italian CV-33 tankette armed with a flamethrower in 28mm" Topic


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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP28 Feb 2017 10:05 p.m. PST

From Empress…

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Main page
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Amicalement
Armand

langobard01 Mar 2017 2:37 a.m. PST

I love WW2 Italians, but sheesh I hate these things! Why couldn't they have come up with something that at least LOOKED like a tank?

Sigh. I know, the 'tankette' concept was big in the 20's and 30's and no one at that point realised it was a dead end.

They still look silly!

Thanks Armand!

Personal logo Jeff Ewing Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

The Italians had the "source tank" -- the FT-17. They also built a copy/remix the Fiat 3000. As it happens, I'm reading _Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts_ right now. It seems the Italians looked at the geostrategic situation in the 20s and reasoned that if they were going to war, it would be in the Alps or the Balkans. Thus, they decided they needed a light, small AFV that could negotiate mountain roads and bridges, and *had a low center of gravity* so they wouldn't tip over on rough terrain. The Fiat 3000 fails on this last. Also recall that the Italian fascists, following Marinetti, we're ideologically disposed to favor small, low, fast vehicles: race cars, MTBs…and tankettes.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2017 10:35 a.m. PST

A votre service mon ami!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

langobard01 Mar 2017 7:16 p.m. PST

@Jeff Ewing: Thanks for that info Jeff. I had assumed (on no basis whatsoever) that it was probably influenced by the ubiquitous Vickers tankettes. I have heard of, but not read 'Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts', but will have to add this to my reading list now.

Thanks for the heads up!

Patrick R02 Mar 2017 5:50 a.m. PST

There is some confusion about the principle behind tankettes. They were designed for a particular role, mainly that of "mobile pillbox" roving around the battlefield to counter infantry advances or even spearhead attacks, they were never meant to engage enemy AFVs, that was the job of artillery and AT weapons.

The concept was taken from WWI where machinegun positions were critical elements, it was therefore a logical conclusion that putting them under armour and on tracks would make them devastating weapons. They would operate in large numbers so that even if the enemy had AT weapons they would be able to overwhelm these before losses became significant.

The British had the Motor Machine Gun Service, which did very well in areas where the fighting hadn't bogged down in the trenches, the Tankette is therefore somewhat akin to the US Tank Destroyer Doctrine of using specialist AFV's for a specific purpose. The Tankette looked like the next logical step in the process, a modern, lightweight machinegun carrier, in British service it evolved into the Universal Carrier and acquired a more expanded role during the war. Oddly enough this is a good example of a vehicle which was mostly used for the role it was intended for (scouting, carrying a mobile MG behind armour etc) but is now mostly considered to be a mere troop carrier.

In those days the logic seemed sound, it had the speed of cavalry, the firepower of a machinegun and could even charge under fire, something the cavalry couldn't. If used as planned they did work reasonably well. But conditions in the field often dictated otherwise, like Tank Destroyers or even the Battlecruiser they were used for jobs they were not designed for and ended up fighting tanks.

We also have to acknowledge that for some War Departments and military commanders they quickly became "low budget tanks" as they could be built in vast numbers in regular automobile factories at low cost.

The original doctrine of these vehicles had become blurred and their failure rate so high that they were seen post war as a foolish mistake and somewhat arbitrarily lumped together with tanks, where there ought to have been a more honest distinction.

Andy ONeill02 Mar 2017 6:42 a.m. PST

It's interesting that the bren carrier platoons were pretty successful in NWE.
They weren't even really proof against rifle or mg fire but the unit of 13 or so carriers could lay down a fair bit of fire.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP02 Mar 2017 11:28 a.m. PST

Quite interesting Patrick… Thanks!.


Amicalement
Armand

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