"Flames of War, V4 Rules, Reviewed and Spoiled" Topic

Of possible interest?

link

Amicalement
Armand

Ouch! The future doen't look rosey IMO. Great review and thoughts.

So now there will be players playing an increasing number of rule sets for the supposed same game:

V3
V4 MW/LW
V4 Desert
V4+ with additional rules from different theatre books e.g. Russia, Italy etc which don't appear in the Desert rule book.

I'm sure chaos will not reign! ;-)

As long as the rules work, I don't care.

That said, I confess this sort of thing is making me look harder at Battlegroup or Fist Full of Tows.

I don't understand. they have different rules for different years of the war now?

Staring to look confusing now.

??? $$$ ??? $$$ !!!

You guys are a tough crowd. I will give them a try. They are free, aren't they? So it will only cost some time & effort.

Here is an example Army list at 99/100 points:

Honey (M3 Stuart) Armoured Squadron
Honey Armoured Squadron HQ — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Squadron
Honey Armoured Squadron HQ — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Squadron
Honey Armoured Squadron HQ — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Honey Armoured Troop — 3 x Honey 5 points
Support Units
SP Anti-tank Platoon (US Allied Platoon) — 4 x M10 3-inch GMC 24 points*
* These points won't be confirmed until the US book is published.
Total 99 points

50 vehicles for one side on the table. You will make what you want out of it.

That's a joke, right repaint? That's not a real list for a game. Really?

link

last list.

unless they are trolling. But it simply doesn't look serious if that's what people come up with (I pre-ordered the rules but if this is just a way to push even more models, I will bow out)

I don't have 15 of any one type of tank in my WWII collection, much less 50!

"but if this is just a way to push even more models"

YEA!

That's about a 2500 point army (1500 being standard) in the current rules right? So in the process of switching to the 100 point army they've upped the standard size of the armies by a lot.

If the British can get so many tanks I wonder how many T-26 tanks the Russians will be able to get.

They'll push me to 3mm scale if that many tanks can be fielded.

I don't understand. they have different rules for different years of the war now?

Not as I understand it. But there will be additional "core" rules added as books go from North Africa to Eastern Front and Normandy, and those are apparently only showing up in the books that need them, as opposed to being included in the core rules.

additional core rules from the core rules means to me different rules for different periods or theaters. Maybe the term is not being used correctly. I would think the only things different would be unit characteristics and weapons specs and these would just be supplemental to the core rules. I have an older version of FOW (ver 2) but haven't played it much. Following these developments is…curious to me. I guess I need to find a more definitive review of the latest version.

There are going to be two sets of rules. The new Mid War book and the Early War/Late War books (It is split into two parts of core rules and special rules).

The EW/LW books are conversion books what work with the old army books for their periods.

The MW book is the complete 4th rulebook. As BF are changing the way armies are constructed old MW books no longer work and you'll need to get the new ones starting with the Afrika Korps and Desert Rats.

I think the majority of the rules are the same other than army building and once BF have completed MW then EW/LW will get the same treatment.

sounds complicated.

The pre-game discussion to decide which rules will be used should only take two hours.

@daler240D: The transition across editions usually is kinda complicated for a bit. Then the full books get released and things clear up.

My issue is that BF is going back to individual nation/army books, when we figured out a long time ago that the better way to handle it is campaign books, and only run armies out of the same (or a limited set of) campaign books.

I'd be OK with an Early War North Africa book and then a Mid-War North Africa book that includes the Americans, but Desert Rats and Afrika Korps books went the way of the dodo back in the transition from 1e to 2e.

Why did they have and go change the point values. Looks like I'm sticking to the old rules gor now.

Why did they have and go change the point values

At a guess they thought it would easier at 100 pts to work out 40% reserves ?

So, just like "old hammer", my group will take and steal from each version to make it work for us. I'm a little optimistic. Of course I prefer IABSM.

They are apparently trying to make the tedious point system (buy each PF seperately) less so by grouping models into semi-historical units. A good idea but execution is difficult.

Making things simplier is one of the hardest concepts in game design. Point systems that are easy for designers are conversely hard for players (and filled with point bargains that soon out weight table top tactics).

At least they are trying…

TomT

yup v4 killed it for me. i moved to bkc2

You are not the only one. It would be interesting to see what it did to sales.

It would be interesting to see what it did to sales.

As they are still carrying on with V4 releases, the stuff must be selling ,but you have to wonder how many people use it for V4 FOW ?

that's an old thread!

Actually, we have been playing Fate of a Nation lately and enjoyed it.

In regard of V4 WWII, we tried it a few times and we did not see so many horrible points that we would burn the game at the stake.

However, one thing is certain, I went 3mm… I just don't have time, space neither want to spend tons of money any more on 15mm (already have three oversized armies).

So far, we enjoy FoW V4 as a light game. But to be honest, I have never considered it to be "realistic" in the first place as some people may have with the previous version.

So no, V4 is not so bad. I am even ok if the simplification brings it to the shores of an X-Wingish game (for full disclosure, I play map wargames and they are a lot more involved).

But one thing is certain, it is definitely now a Battalion level game and 3mm as we use it is perfectly adequate.

I stopped playing FoW when v3 came out. Not a deliberate "I'm never playing this again" but a more gradual "there is other stuff id rather play"

now V 4 is out and has a few books I've been looking into it again and I'm really enjoying it

I've dusted off my old soviets and have had a couple of fun games with them, next I'll be dusting off my Italians

I should probably add that I prefer mid war so I can just use the new books without having to do all the conversion for LW.
Also I'm only a causal player

just a 100 points of so over tea and cake