"Victory Decision: Raid - Question on LMG Weapon Team" Topic

I'm not sure if anyone else has looked at Victory Decision: Raid (its newly released rules – squad based version of Victory Decision) but I had a question about weapon teams.

When I look at the Nuts! ruleset, a German LMG consists of two figures. I stand to be corrected, but in this ruleset, both figures can operate the MG34. Of the two, one figure can use a Bolt Action rifle in leiu of the MG34.

When I look at Victory Decision: Raid, a German Weapon team it seems like it consists of 3 figures operating a MG34 with two of three figures carrying a SMG and a bolt action rifle.

Any reason why one ruleset uses two figures and another uses three?

The MG team "proper" should have 2 assistants from what I recall, but functionally 2 men can run it just fine, one loading and one firing.

So organization versus practical reality.

Nuts is a skirmish game where you are free to organize your figures in unusual ways or as fits the situation, whereas some rules require the MG team to operate as a unit (TW&T does this from memory).

Thank you for the response. If I may ask for more clarification (I'm not as knowledgeable as many of you here), but why in a three man LMG team would only two of the three men have additional guns. Is that because the third is carrying the MG34?

Secondly, would basing three minis or two minis together give me the most flexibility between different rule sets.

Also I am not familiar with TW&T

Yes, the gunner would carry the MG and the others its ammunition and spare parts. The gunner might carry a side arm.

I would doubt that the MG assistants would ever use their personal weapons, except in weird circumstances---out of MG ammo, enemy appearing in close proximity, etc.

TW&T is Troops Weapons and Tactics, a Too Far Lardies rules set for WWII combat.

If you want maximum flexibility, I'd suggest basing your troops on individual bases---some rules are picky about removing individual models, or if it's 2 or 3 guys to a gun.

Of course, if you mount more than 1 guy per stand, you can use counters to track casualties.

The third guy is mainly there to hump ammo.

The gunner himself will generally carry a pistol as a personal side-arm, while the assistants would be authorized a normal small arm.

Realistically, they wouldn't be firing their small arms basically ever, but it's sort of traditional in some skirmish games.

A medium (or GPMG) machine-gun team is three men in most armies, even today. Lead men don't get tired, so gamers prefer not to waste a possible rifle shot with a third crewman, but if you ever had to hump a machine-gun, spare barrel, tripod, and boxes of ammunition (often beyond the authorized basic load) (as I have), you would appreciate that third crewman and understand his very important role.

As most folks already pointed out, the crew are busy crewing the gun. That means breaking out more belts of ammunition, getting ready to feed them into the gun for uninterrupted action, and getting ready to quickly swap a hot barrel for a cool one. (This is similar to the assistant of a BAR being busy loading more bullets into empty magazines.) The assistant and ammunition bearer would almost never fire their rifles unless stuff had really hit the fan and the machine-gun was broken. Often the ammunition bearer faces in the opposite direction as the gunner to ensure that the enemy doesn't sneak up on them. To strike a balance between gamer perception and reality, I tend to let the third crewman (ammunition carrier) fire his rifle, but the second crewman (assistant) cannot. If the crewmen are missing (e.g., incapacitated), I reduce the machine gun's rate of fire, as the gunner will now have to stop from time to time to break out more ammunition.

Any member of a machine-gun crew can operate the gun. Basically any member of a rifle platoon can operate the gun, but probably not as well as the designated gunner. The difference is usually not worth representing on the table.

In all armies you man the key weapons as long as possible, so any member of a squad is trained to operate all the weapons, including machine guns, grenade launchers, rifles, submachine guns, carbines, and pistols.

The third mans was there not only to hump the ammo but also to reload the MG belts when possible.

Good call.

Thanks for the responses everyone!

An assistant gunner also carries a spare barrel.

In a medium or heavy machine gun group (WWII German tripod mount) would the third member, or any member not the gunner himself, act as a spotter?

Stephen

The HMG crew was something like 6 or 7 men. A spotter, a gunner, an assistant with the tripod, and 3 or 4 guys to hump ammo.

I just realized an error and this *may* be the difference. The weapons team in Nuts I was referencing was a 2 Man, MG34 LMG.

The weapons team in Victory Decision: Raid is a 3 Man, MG34 HMG.

Again, as my knowledge is basic, does the LMG vs HMG really make that much of a difference?

Where is this kind of info available? I am getting into Conflict of Heroes and those rules get into some detail in the form of notes from the designer. His uncle was in the German army in WWII and discussed this kind of fine detail to the designer. Are there any books or web sites which delve into this kind of detail and advice? Thank you.

Stephen

AFAIK the HMG MG34 is the tripod version so the extra guy would 'hump' the tripod. Is there such as thing as a MMG and HMG version of these or are they called just one or the other? Thank you.

"Again, as my knowledge is basic, does the LMG vs HMG really make that much of a difference?"

Not sure how these particular different rules differentiate between them, but the tactical employment of the 2 different designations is huge, despite, ostensibly being the same weapon.
The LMG version is an integral (some would say THE integral) section weapon providing immediate fire support for the rifle section.
The HMG version is a different beast, and has a totally different role; longer range, more capable of being fired on fixed setting, for longer, requires a lot more ammunition, used to deny space to the enemy, MUCH less mobile, providing support more for the entire company rather the rifle section.
Think of the difference between a hand grenade and a mortar.

Yes the lmg is a squad support weapon, the mmg and hmg platoon or company support weapons. The MG34 had two versions of tripod. A light which was used to stabilize the weapon for long bursts of fire and a heavier one which would do the above plus allow the gun to firer in the indirect mode (think artillery). This is all from Wikipedia BTW.

I am more interested in the tactical employment of the different versions of the weapon system.