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"28mm Prussian Plastics" Topic


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1,112 hits since 15 Feb 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

IronMaidenheader Inactive Member15 Feb 2017 12:37 p.m. PST

From all I've read I think this is a very viable option. I'm getting quotes on injection moulds now.

I need a little help on what should be in this.

Primarily this will be march attack with Swedish cuffs that can be filed off to make Prussian ones. Three separate hat options for tricorne, grenadier mitre with plate, or short fusilier mitre.

I am thinking 30 figures in the box with 27 march attack bodies and 3 command: officer, drummer, standard.

I'm not sure about zimmerman? Also if any of the poses were skirmish would that be useful?

Happy for any ideas fine fellows!

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP15 Feb 2017 1:00 p.m. PST

Sounds good. You got the right elements. I think for skirmish, I'd skip it. Not as common in the period. If anything, 27 is a lot. Either add more command so one could make 2 units out of the box or have fewer men. Just my 2 cents. I think generic SYW is a great idea, but they will ALWAYS be some one complaining about some detail that you didn't include.

4D Jones15 Feb 2017 1:02 p.m. PST

Nice idea. But HaT have had this as one of their future projects for awhile.

However, whoever gets there first gets my money.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP15 Feb 2017 1:11 p.m. PST

But HaT is 1/72 aren't they?

idontbelieveit15 Feb 2017 1:13 p.m. PST

Hmmm. It seems like you could do the arms separate so you could reuse everything and have a sprue with arms with swedish cuffs and one without. What are you going to do about lapels? It seems like you could make bodies without lapels and then do a plastic lapel overlay that could kind of snap in place for them, but I'm not sure enough about he uniform details to know whether that really makes sense.

de Ligne Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Feb 2017 2:15 p.m. PST

Lapels are an easy paint job so I would not worry about that.
But with that number of figures you will need at least 2 standard bearers and probably an NCO too.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP15 Feb 2017 3:21 p.m. PST

Agree, two standard bearers and one or two sergeants.

Since many of us do "big" battalions where a battalion is 24 to 48 or more figures, are you considering selling just other ranks sprues so we can build our big battalions without having so many command figures left over?

Just my nickel's worth. grin

Jim

IronMaidenheader Inactive Member15 Feb 2017 3:43 p.m. PST

The sergeants are different how?

So in a 30 figure set we would have 6 command figures? 2 sergeants, 2 standards, 1 drummer, 1 officer? and then 24 line?

If one frame is all rank troops then that could be available as a separate purchase or there could be two box sizes. Maybe 24 and 48?

seneffe15 Feb 2017 4:49 p.m. PST

If 30 figs is the target, perhaps 26 enlisted rank and file, with 1 officer, I drummer and 2 who could be made up either as standard bearers or NCOs?

NCOs and standard bearers wore very similar basic uniforms (though with different backgrounds and career paths), so just different arms and maybe a separate colour casing to be worn rolled greatcoat style. That would work for both the big battalion enthusiasts, and the folks who want every smaller units with lots of flags.

Ilodic Inactive Member15 Feb 2017 4:59 p.m. PST

I think with plastic SYW figures, in 28mm, you have an opportunity to do something rather unique, and that is provide miter transfers for grenadier (and fusiliers). With a rather uniform, flat miter front, and just a bit of texture on the transfers, the figures within the rest of the army fit in, uniformity if you will, but the regiments themselves would stand out in a very pronounced way.

IronMaidenheader Inactive Member15 Feb 2017 6:35 p.m. PST

llodic that is the idea having many variations in heads to go with somewhat uniform bodies.

Thank you seneffe that is helpful. I am pouring over the various reference works now to provide my sculptor with reference he can use.

If anyone has poses or head options that work please post them here. I am very serious about this and believe I have the right plastics manufacturer to produce these.

One other question: for march attack most will have the left arm on the weapon and the right arm swinging during march. Does anyone want some models with the right arm supporting the firearm as well?

de Ligne Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Feb 2017 2:20 a.m. PST

Heads: heads attached to hat. ie four different types of heads. One with tricorne with pompom, one with grenadier mitre, one with fusilier mitre and lastly an officers head with tricorne without pompom but with cockade. So if a box of 30 you will need at least 90 separate heads.

Muskets in left hands. I like the idea of some right hands supporting the left hand or resting on the butt.

NCOs are distinguished by a stick normally hanging from the right lapel and a spontoon that has a different shape to the officers one.

Standard bearers are NCOs but they also wear over the left shoulder the flag case.

Officer's coats do not have turnbacks.

4D Jones16 Feb 2017 2:42 a.m. PST

HaT have their SYW project marked as 28mm. It seems to have been on the cards for years.

Note that Warlord already do 28mm AWI Hessians, which at three feet distance to a man on a galloping horse, can pass muster as SYW Prussians. -Although, with half-a-dozen poses, a regiment looks anything but uniform.

de Ligne Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Feb 2017 3:53 a.m. PST

I am afraid that the Warlord Hessians are horrible. I have just assembled a box and almost every figure is made up of 7 parts, some very fiddly like the queues.

They would be perfectly useable as SYW Prussians if they were half decent. The biggest problem is that the arms are not parallel resulting in stooped shoulders (a large back and small chest). Furthermore there are many uniform errors the officer has coat turnbacks for example.

I will soon be reviewing them here

nigbilpainter.blogspot.fr

IronMaidenheader Inactive Member16 Feb 2017 7:27 a.m. PST

Thank you all for your input. I noticed some people are building out their units with zimmerman with the apron and axe. Is that standard or just a nice to have feature?

Griefbringer16 Feb 2017 8:36 a.m. PST

I am thinking 30 figures in the box with 27 march attack bodies and 3 command: officer, drummer, standard.

I am not really into the scene myself, but my impression on the 18th century gaming is that units of 24 or 36 might be more popular than units of 30. Though whatever size you make your boxes, there will already be somebody that is unhappy.

For actual box contents, I presume that you might want to have separate sprues for rank-and-file and command. Presuming that the rank-and-file are in march attack pose, you probably don't need too many parts – maybe 3 bodies, 9 heads (3 variants) and 4-5 sets of arms to provide the customer with some options.

As for the command sprue, check your budget before getting carried away – while the customers might certainly appreciate a command sprue of 6 different bodies with a lot of arm choices and other bit, it could end up costing quite a lot, compared to a simpler sprue of just officer, musician and standard/NCO.

On another note, are you also considering releasing a matching metal range to complement the plastic figures, like many manufacturers do?

IronMaidenheader Inactive Member16 Feb 2017 1:23 p.m. PST

So based on the moulding area it looks like we may be able to achieve the following:

12 rank and file on one sprue with 3 heads each. These would be single piece march attack with the musket in the left arm (crook or held by the butt) with the right arm either swinging or supporting the left arm. So 12 bodies and 36 heads. If that doesn't work we'd do 8 bodies, 24 heads.

Rank and file would be:
1. Swedish cuff so that it could be converted to Prussian cuff
2. No lapels
3. Collar or no collar?

A smaller command sprue would be:
1. Officer
2. 2 NCOs
3. Drummer
4. 2 Standard bearers

If possible we'd try to get some bare and bandaged heads into the mix and possibly wounded/casualty figures.

Suggestions?

Griefbringer: possibly metal as well. Haven't thought that far. The main goal is to get this period into plastic and test the waters with the first box. Austrian infantry to follow and then cavalry if those first two sets sell.

thehawk16 Feb 2017 7:02 p.m. PST

Suggestions as requested:

One of the reasons for the WF figures not being a great success was the failure to seek approval feedback on the final design. Consumers have wants and needs that you don't know about. In retail nothing hits the shelves without a feedback session with a consumer focus group.

If you are going digital sculpting you could offer the 3D models for home printing. One advantage is that it is then possible to print any size from 28mm upwards. There have been some kickstarters for some ordinary building models recently that made a small fortune. It's one way to pay for the moulds.

Second advantage is that it is a short step to metal casting. If cost is an issue, rather than make an officer mould, just cast the figures. Very low cost.

Third advantage is that it is easier to fine-tune a design digitally.

Personal logo EccentricTodd Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Feb 2017 11:23 a.m. PST

Did I miss the part that discussed what basses would be in the box? Something else to think about, if you haven't already.

Musketier Supporting Member of TMP17 Feb 2017 3:52 p.m. PST

Just when I thought I had my 18th C. gaming all planned out… Still here are a few more suggestions:

1) Not sure what you mean by Swedish cuffs being cut down to Prussian ones. For me it's the other way round: Shave off the cuff flap above a Prussian cuff and you have a (tight) Swedish one?

2) No harm in learning from others, so look closely at what the Perrys are doing in terms of sprue distribution (computer-designed I think) and box size for their AWI and Napoleonic sets, especially the most recent ones (e.g. the Austrian command sprue includes a Zimmermann).

3) Most people will build their units with four equal bases, so 32 figures per box may be better than 30? If you go for sprues of 8 rankers, offering those and the command sprue for sale separately as well (at a reasonable mark-up from the boxed set) would give your customers added flexibility.

4) The main point about NCOs is that they don't carry muskets, so no cartridge box on the right hip, and no bandolier over the left shoulder.

5) However, those NCOs acting as colour bearers would sling the waxcloth colour case over their shoulder in this fashion. So with a bit of deft sculpting, one of the ranker figures could actually become an optional (extra?) colour bearer (happy to expand on this if deemed useful).

6) In battle, Prussian Zimmerleute were assigned as muscle to the regimental guns, so although they make for a colourful addition, they need not necessarily be represented unless you plan on including those guns.

7) de Ligne rightly rubbishes the WGF Hessians' stiff queues. They could perhaps be sculpted onto the soldiers' backs, with just the bow sculpted onto the interchangeable heads?

Lots more will come up if this project goes forward. Happy to contribute further have been giving input to HaT and Eureka years ago, and would be happy to do so again for you, just PM me.

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