"15mm Crusades" Topic

Just wondering if "Kingdom of Heaven" was motivating anyone to game the Crusades, specifically in 15mm. I have been slowly ramping up for this for the last few years and I recently started to expand my 15mm Essex Arab/Saracen figs for this time frame.

Russ

I have never stopped gaimg the Crusades Era :-).

One of the appeals (from a tabletop perspective), is you have three major military doctrines clashing (the Latin West, the Medieval Near East and Central Asia).

None of these are completely 'dominant', and each has the tools to take on the others.

Chthonic regards

B

Ol;d Glory 15mm just released Saracen, Seljek Turks, Holy order Knights, European Crusaders and Outreammer Crusdaers.

I use mostly use Outpost figures, with Donnington as my second choice.

Chthonic regards

B

I know 15mm are cheaper but if you want to see some great 28mm figs, go to the Perry brothers site. Their Crusaders and Muslims are excellent.

which 'old glory 15s' released cursanders? i don't see it at the og15s site, i know there are others.

i've been waiting to get into this period for a while, slowly amassing refrences, this might finally get me to take the plunge.

ah, i see them on the 'oldglory15s' site but, of course, no pics.

anyone have a link to pics?

The Crusades have to be one of the best Medieval eras to game. So many possibilities! Campaign games are one very interesting option with many different competing factions. You could do Byzantines, Turks, Fatimids, Franks, Georgians, Armenians, Mongols, and many more besides - all competing for wealth and power. I have all these armies in 15mm and now I am working on Muslim, Byzantine, and Frankish in 25mm. I love this era!

Hi,

Which rules do you use/recommend for 15mm?

Hi

Accepting my own biases as the author, I would suggest 'Shattered Lances'.

At the moment you can still view a playtest version for free at the associated yahoo website link

In the rules I have tried to do justice to the different military doctrines of the era (e.g. Arabs are not merely Byzantines in 'funny clothes').

I've also tried to use some novel gaming mechanisms (my PhD is game theory/stats based) to give the game both impetus, and avoid book-keeping. Hint- random walks are your friend :-).

Chthonic regards

B

I agree, Shattered lances has everything that DBM has to offer but so much more, it is DBM the way it always should have been and as far as the Crusades go, it is created by someone who actually knows what he is talking about (has a doctorate in Medieval history)

Ironbow or rather the upcoming Ironbow II from the Perfect Captain is an excellent set of rules for the crusades. The original game only covered the 1st crusade and the crusader states of Antioch and Edessa up to 1119 as well as their Byzantine, Armenian, Seljuq and Arab allies and enemies.

The much expanded Ironbow II will cover the entire period of the crusades upto about 1300 including the crusader states created in Greece and the Balkans, the various stes created by Normans in Italy and Sicilliy as well as the variosu 'oriental' states such as Mamluks, Ilkhanids as such not covered by the first edition of the game.

The game uses several novel ideas to recreate the period but rather than me wrtiting about them check them out at :
link
link

Museum Miniatures have some very nice figures for this era. I have a Saracen army that looks great. Painted and based for Armati, they can be morphed into a couple of other armies as well (Fatimid's gfor example) and about 3+ DBA armies.

I also have a cobbled together series of misceleneous figures that I can use as Norman Crusaders and Byzantines. Makes for some great battles.

I use Armati for the period because, in my opinion, it combines playability with a great feel for how (after reading about the period) I imagine the battles could or should go.

For more on Armati see warflute.org

Thanks for the rules input.

Brian

Back to figures.

I am starting a later crusader army (knightly order and outremer knights) in 15's. I can't tell what the OG ones look like, anybody seen them and can recommend. Outpost doesn't list crusaders on their website (only the islamics). Any other recommendations. I took a look at museum and I was also interested in Gladiator. Has anyone used or seen Gladiator games crusaders in person?

Thanks,

Brinton

Hi Brinton

There are some pictures from OG on the SL yahoo website, and I'm afraid they weren't overly impressive.
Outpost are in the sculpting phase of their 1st Crusade Range.

Gladiator (specifically the Ochmann Feudal Fe range) are very accurate, but are a smaller 15mm figure (they are an old range), very nicely sculpted and come with open hands for lances (which I've attached brass wire to). I have not been nearly so impressed with the Gladiator CRU range.

One of the problems with buying 'knights' from this period is that many manufacturers mix anachronistic features in the 12th/13th C together. Gadiator is probably the best in terms of accuracy, but are a 'small' 15mm figure.

Chthonic regards

B

I have seen the OG crusader heavy infantry, medium infantry, religious order spearmen and the Cilician Armenian spearmen and I wasn't very impressed. They may look better painted. The sculpts seemed a little flat and the detail wasn't as good as the Essex I'm used to. Once again, though, once they are primed maybe the detail would stand out a little better. The first three packs I mentioned looked like they could be mixed together pretty easy (one on the plus side for me). For now, I'll stick with Essex.

Russ

GFI/Minifigs is in the process of remolding the 15mm Feudal Europe and Crusades range. We have combined poses, where appropriate, for maximum variety. We have a Carroccio (Holy Wagon with Altar, Cross and banner, Priests and oxen), tribuchet, farm animals, civilians and 25 numbers ready to go. We are waiting on delivery (this week) for the balance of the moold rubber to complete the range. When done, should be offering about 75 numbers.

Packs will contain either 12 foot or 4 mounted for $4.25. Equipment will be variously priced.

We will announce their release here on The Miniatures Page as soon as we can get the pictures on the site. minifigs.com

I am impressed with "A Might of Arms" for rules. Am always looking for more suggestions.

Best,
Tom Dye
GFI

We are doing a 3rd crusade campaign (using DBM in 15mm), with about 8 players playing various historical figures. A lot of fun.

I saw Kingdom of Heaven tonight, and yes it is inspirational. I have taken out my old collection of Crusaders. My collection consists mainly of old Minifigs, Essex and Museum miniatures.

Minifigs are a bit bulky and static, but they have som figures, e.g. the frankish crossbowman and some of the Saracens, like the bedouins, that I really like. Mind you these Minifigs are from the 80's. The remodelling of their figures will definitely have me buying the new ones.
IMHO Minifigs is vastly underrated, I have them for every period from Ancients through ACW, and I really like them.

Essex are more detailed, and do not have the "gnomeitis" feel as some of their figures(for a review of their Napoleonics see deepfriedhappymice.com ;one of my favourite websites, and well worth looking at). I used one of my first student grants to by a number of DBA armies from Essex, and now I know I did the right thing.

Museum have a nice selection of Crusader figures and of the entire area like Khwarizm and Georgians. I don't really like their horses though, they are too skinny. They are sometimes up to 2 mm bigger than the others, but if you don't mix them in the same unit they work fine. They have good detail and a good period feel. Once again I bought DBA armies from them in the early 90's, so they might have changed.

Now that I'm old and wise(hmm .... well...), I will probably rebuild, repaint and look for even more figures so that I can field every army of the entire crusading era from 1096 to 1396.

My templars will be less villanous than the caricatures of the film, and my Reynauld de Chatillon more sinister than fat.

Eric Alexander

Rwphillipssti -

I love hearing about campaigns. Can you tell us a little about the one you guys are doing?