"No terrain in GW!!!" Topic

Gladly. (I'll avoid the obvious Sid James jokes, just for you. Perhaps your right, only I can see them)

🙄

"Better options"? Where?

Workshop has the best games now.

Great value, their stuff.

If they made the bast games, we wouldn't be having these silly conversations. Also they would not have any competition. So, best games, no, they don't. Comparable to some others, maybe. Worse than some others, most probably.

There are better options out there, it just depends what your after. GW are only interested in their own product, that is why they only stock their own product, Other companies concentrate on doing one or two things well, not being a jack of all trades and master of none.

I think their value is in the eye of the beholder. I like their paints, but others are cheaper and I am buying more and more from the others, as they are also good. (besides the new GW paint range is to complicated for me, I only need one white)

(I do wander how much GW is paying pictors. Probably the sole reason for GW high pricing)

"Better options"? Where?

Workshop has the best games now.

Great value, their stuff.

For Fantasy:

King of War and far cheaper miniatures (we have already gone over this many times before).

Frostgrave: Northstar Miniatures are better and far cheaper than GW as well (also covered many times before)

Warhammer Fantasy Battle any Edition prior to 5th.

Sci Fi

Infinty

Rogue Stars

Battle Beyond Atares

Warpath

There are quite a few choices other than GW these days and companies that will provide far better value with their miniatures.

You can choose to spend over $1,000 USD to get the army you want of spend far less and get more. But I have covered this many times already.

Oh and their one off Box boardgames are not that great and don't even come close to other games with miniatures.

Warpath? Maybe, haven't seen the new editions.
Antares- The minis and factions are rather dry, just in my opinion, by the way.
Infinity- Regardless of the material or the sculpting, the costs per figure is high.
Rogue Stars- Apples to oranges, it's very small skirmish level gaming that I would rather use an RPG for.
No one said there are not other choices, and I'm a fan of Infinity's figures, so don't take my opinion above to be a judgement on their design or execution, although they are a bit too small for my eyes.

Regarding fantasy-
Mantic/KOW- Good game, especially for tournament playstyle, but does not have the personality that Warhammer has. (AOS suffers this also).
Frostgrave- good game; in my opinion Mordheim is better.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles- 6th Edition for me, thanks.
My buddies and I played several games of Mordheim at 1500-2000GCs for some great large skirmish action. A little slow but good fun. Definitely had an Oldhammer-ish vibe to the games.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
I .I. I. I .I. I

There, Pictors, there!!!

We have found some for you!!!

*yawn*

If a newbie may interject, I have a less emotive view perhaps.
I recently got back in to wargamming after 35 years(pre-GW) because my 8 year old son walked past a GW shop last march and was desperate to go in. We went in to buy a fantasy type game, but they only had Angels and demons(AOS) and Space guys(40k). My Son liked the Angels blokes and the guy in the shop let him paint one for free, which he loved. I thought the angels were dumb so in the end we bought 40k Dark Vengence. We then painted half the set, had lots of advice from the guy in the shop, watched GW painting video's did washes, went back to the shop to get more advice and took figures in to show him etc. Fantastic service for a £60.00 GBP outlay.

We then played 1 game of 40k, decide the rules were far too complicated, switched to Kings of War, painted a 2000pt army each ( yep my 8 year old really did paint that many figures) and we're now doing the waterloo starter set from warlord.

At some point we'll go back and finish the space marines because the minis are still cool, even if the game was a bit much.

My point is wargaming is a niche hobby, yet there is a GW store in nearly every major UK town getting hundreds of young kids in to wargaming, even if GW wargaming. I think they do a fantastic service for the hobby in general. Yet the internet is just flooded with haters. GW profits are through the roof too, so they are obviously servicing the customers they are aiming to service.

Now we quickly went off GW (I still like the paints) and they are expensive, but I do think that provided a fantastic stepping stone to 'real' wargaming.

Maybe the guys who really hate GW should think about it from a newbies viewpoint for a bit ?

And to prove my objectivity, those angels really are dumb, and why did they stop doing orcs, and jeez they are expensive, £14.00 GBP for one hero !!! £250.00 GBP for Smaug.

Interesting and well said. My only answer regarding your question at the end is to point back to your earlier comment regarding the fact that they are making a nice profit. Their marketing and pricing scheme has produced profits.
I do take an opposing stance regarding "real wargaming". No matter what game and style of play we use, it's all still wargaming, with toy soldiers, using rules to facilitate the outcome…

I'm not sure I can blame GW for wanting to make a profit. I'm flabbergasted they can actually keep 30,40 50 ? stores open in the UK as well as around the world. Are there really that many people doing wargaming ? (I do think its proper wargaming really).

People buying their stuff must be happy to do so, because its easy to find an alternative with a 5 minute search on google. Though I do wonder how many people buy 1 starter set and never finish painting it or ever really playing a game.

I was really surprised at how bad the feed back on GW is on the internet, though it is probably from more middle aged people(sorry that's not aimed at you) who think GW is not as good as it was when they were 12.

I do think its more fun doing non gw stuff(and cheaper) and making scenery is more fun than buying it, but as a starting point to wargaming I think they are doing a real service.

If keeping the shops open, means high prices, but also means more people get in the hobby, who are happy(-ish) to pay those prices, we should thank them not knock them.

I guess they will either continue to pay high prices, quit or move to non GW gaming, or a combination.

Sorry its the first time I've joined into a GW rant. ;-)

I was really surprised at how bad the feed back on GW is on the internet, though it is probably from more middle aged people(sorry that's not aimed at you) who think GW is not as good as it was when they were 12.

Well the reason for the hate is many of us has experience GW screwing, gouging along with other stuff and they have brought the hate upon themselves.

They have been the big bully with all of their threatening to sue and when Chapterhouse did fight back and they did go to court it did not end all that well for GW.

Thus why they have been changing everything since than.

I first got into GW gaming back in 1989 and I will be 60 next month.

Now I am surprise that you think that 40K rules are far too complicated since they have been dummying them down for the past 15 years.

GW over the past three or so years has seen their profits drop and they are beginning to change since several of their most recent reasons are far better price than before.

But unless the less they are working at killing off 40K so that they can do a complete overhaul of it just like they did to WFB.

Sorry its the first time I've joined into a GW rant. ;-)

Welcome

Now I am surprise that you think that 40K rules are far too complicated since they have been dummying them down for the past 15 years.

Remember, he is playing with an 8 year old and, although the core rules may be straight forward enough, there are probably a lot of special rules and exceptions to remember, IIRC.

Oh and the need to roll the zillion saves that GW has put into game.

I was in a Games Workshop store last month, and the guy working there told me that they are not allowed to have any MDF terrain on the board or scratchbuilt terrain either. He had made a nice piece and showed it to me from the back, but said he could not use it in the store anymore. I remember Rogue Trader when they showed you how to make a land speeder from an arm deodorant container. Ah, the good old days.

Oh and the need to roll the zillion saves that GW has put into game.

- Yeah it was the three dice rolls for every single figure, and then working out what type of gun they had etc. KoW was much more our style :-). Maybe the game gets better the more you play it, we only tried it once. Again GW will spend an afternoon teaching you the game which I think is great service(though obviously they have a vested interest in you learning it)

And yes, it was better in the old days!

Sorry, but that is my PERSONAL view. I painted for GW when they were in Dalling Road and I painted so many brilliant models (as in, the models were brilliant, not always my painting…). The shop was buzzing with excitement and the fantasy hobby was lively and vibrant.

I rarely go in now. When it became a corporate machine it lost what made it special to ME.

AND the loss of custom built terrain is a manifestation of that. Good luck to them and their profits, but the world is a sadder, less colourful place as a result.

I don't even buy paints from them anymore as they are available better/cheaper/more conveniently from other manufacturers.

YMMV (Pictors especially), and that is how it should be, but please don't think you will convince me the modern GW is a patch on the high quality of the old.

Have fun

@Marc at work- very well said. I agree with you, personal experience and point of view is what matters at the end of the day. It's not an issue of whether the glass is half-empty or half-full, it matters whether you like the drink it holds.
I love seeing scratch built terrain but I have always loved pre-made modular terrain.

Hurrrrrayyy! Gobbo Town! Thank you very much! At last someone else who actually asked the staff the question at hand. Well done! I am not surprised at all by the response.
Who's next??? Go on ask, they won't bite.

Full marks, marc at work. Finally sees capt flash and me agreeing on something!

GW always (almost?) had terrain to buy, but it is only more recently that they, as I and Gobbos have pointed out (by actually asking the staff face to face and not just guessing), have been trying to stop people doing it.

I urge everyone reading this board to go into their local GW store and ask them the question straight out, "Do you have any scratch built terrain and will you tell or show people how to build it?". Lets try some facts for a change.

I got away with painting a ScotiaGrendel piece once, because nobody was looking. But I know I cannot bring any other terrain to work on. Though the proprietor knows I have a copy of the old GW terrain making book…

One of the stores in Sydney (Aus) that I used to frequent used to hate players coming in and asking if they sold a particular scenery piece (Big armoured fortress in the 2nd/3rd ed Guard army books)or where they could get it if they didn't.

The staff, mostly didn't know if it WAS a GW piece (it wasn't) or where to get it.
I came in with a "poster" from Ziterdes one day to show them where that terrain piece DID come from, so they would know – and knowing also that they couldn't tell anyone else.
(another hobby/model store a couple of blocks away did carry Ziterdes stuff at the time).

The old days, when people built terrain, meant that tables often looked different from each other and some were outstanding. Nowadays, it's all mechanical clones of planet Boring GrimDarkSkullGothic IX.

And when they DO attempt to do xenos terrain, they **** it up so badly that a bag of cheap aquarium plants from a petshop will yield better results anyway.

GW Terrain, while obviously expensive, is top notch. No way in hell can aquarium plants yield a better result. Fortunately we are lucky to have a
Number of different manufacturers available to sell us modular terrain kits. Between that, the hardware store, pet shops, and the train shops, we can all have unique looking tables. No need to denigrate GW shops over this. It's their store, let them promote their product.

And the there's this guy:
link
Awesome example of DIY here. A perfect example of mixing kits and bits, right along with the Chicago Skirmish Gaming guys' works.

Awesome example of DIY here. A perfect example of mixing kits and bits,

Yup and more than likely like a tenth of the cost of the GW Terrain.

No way in hell can aquarium plants yield a better result

Well then go to the local hobby store and get some of the fake flowers and those would be far better and cheaper than that horrible looking Alien Terrain that GW is trying to sell.

What I want to know is what happened to all that awesome scratch built terrain in all those stores, and also all those great boards the tournament team had. Is it in a warehouse somewhere?

I very much doubt it, even 20 years ago storage space was expensive and didn't get wasted on stuff that couldn't be sold. Back around then the Chester store decided to revamp the store Chaos Marine army so they held a free raffle to get rid of the old one. I've still got it.

Nice use of aquarium plants on that blog Capt Flash linked to.