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"Gringo 40's and Wargames Foundry" Topic


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710 hits since 9 Feb 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Snowcat09 Feb 2017 2:37 a.m. PST

Does anyone know who these guys are in the Seljuk army lists? The Perry Bros made them in their Muslim range for the Crusades, and distinguish them from Seljuk javelinmen (who all have long hair and different clothing).

picture

They look great, but where are they in the army lists?

Cheers

Snowcat09 Feb 2017 2:42 a.m. PST

Hmm, well I know I typed 'Seljuk Azerbaijani Swordsmen' in the subject title. And I *did not* crosspost to the 19thC message board!

Bill???

GurKhan09 Feb 2017 2:56 a.m. PST

They're based on Ian Heath's figure 50 in "Armies and Enemies of the Crusades", based in turn on a 13th-century Varqeh va Gulshan MS from Azerbaijan. I'd normally give a link to Druzinah's site for pictures, but it's down at the moment.

I think the general assumption of list-writers is that they aren't in fact a specific unit or troop-type, and they are mixed in with the rest of the Seljuk spearmen/javelinmen.

The shaved head with scalplock _may_ suggest that these "Azerbaijani" types are Turks or Turkomans, whereas I've always wondered if the hairy guys (Perry's "Saljuq tribal javelinmen") were in fact originally meant to represent Dailami or Khurasanians they come from a siege scene on a plate from further East (see link ).

Snowcat09 Feb 2017 3:03 a.m. PST

That you Duncan? Sounds like you. :)

Unfortunately I don't have that book anymore, and will have to buy it again.

The Perry's certainly seem to think they're quite a specific troop type, arming them only with those rather distinctive swords, and with the proto-Cossack look they have.

IIRC I've seen them in 15mm too, probably by Essex.

Cheers

Snowcat09 Feb 2017 3:07 a.m. PST

This chap is using them as Ghazis.

link

And James Roach used them as 'wild easterners', alongside 'hillmen'. He replaced some swords with javelins.

picture

goragrad09 Feb 2017 3:54 a.m. PST

Minifigs has them, but I haven't seen them at Essex. Essex does have a scalplocked Seljuk javelinman though.

Snowcat09 Feb 2017 4:02 a.m. PST

Minifigs sounds right – sword held high?

The Essex Seljuk javelinmen and archers seem to have mixed the scalplock types with the long haired ones.

GurKhan09 Feb 2017 4:28 a.m. PST

That you Duncan? Sounds like you. :)

Am I that obvious?

Google "warqa wa gulshah" and scroll down the images till you get to "Rabi ibn Adnan attacks his enemies…" The swordsman on foot at he right-hand end of the scene is the main source for these guys.

Snowcat09 Feb 2017 4:43 a.m. PST

Yup. ;)

I found the image but can't post it because of some issue with warfare.altervista.org

Definitely the chaps – who are they supposed to be in the story?

GurKhan09 Feb 2017 6:25 a.m. PST

No idea, sorry.

goragrad09 Feb 2017 10:03 p.m. PST

Yep – sword overhead.

Snowcat10 Feb 2017 12:48 a.m. PST

From memory it was a variant made from one of their Gauls. Identical pose. :)

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