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"Flag of the Yorkshire "Blues" Regiment in 1745 " Topic


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©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Tango0106 Feb 2017 9:20 p.m. PST

"During the Jacobite invasion of England in 1745, many loyal Whigs (supporters of George II) raised regiments of troops to aid their king against his competitor, Bonnie Prince Charlie. On 24 September 1745, several Whig gentlemen of Yorkshire decided to raise a unit to aid George II. Their contribution included both a regiment of foot called the Yorkshire Blues, and a regiment of cavalry called the Yorkshire Hunters. The book Cumberland's Culloden Army 1745-46 by Stuart Reid (1) details the uniform of the Yorkshire Blues: a blue coat with red cuffs and no lapels…"

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Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP06 Feb 2017 11:12 p.m. PST

Great to have this information! Thanks! My Jacobite Rebellion armies are improved by this militia unit now having a documented flag to carry.

Tango0107 Feb 2017 10:41 a.m. PST

A votre service mon ami!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Rod MacArthur07 Feb 2017 12:25 p.m. PST

Excellent. I am in the middle of creating a Jacobite Rebellion set-up at present. My current plans include all of the units for Prestonpans, Falkirk and Culloden, but I do intend creating the units for the Defence of England at some future date. There were no major battles, but a couple of skirmishes took place.

If I get around to modelling the Yorkshire Blues, then I would definitely give them this flag, and credit the designer on my blog https://rodwargaming.wordpress.com if I show them on that.

Rod

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP07 Feb 2017 1:38 p.m. PST

Good luck with your project, Rod. I've been amassing 1745 (mainly) Jacobite armies for decades and must have well over a thousand-five hundred figures, more than I could ever hope to use at one time (but handy for a campaign game someday, maybe). After the "easy" units and the regulars, it's fun to branch out to the exotics and the seldom-seens, like the Loyalist militias, the Foot Guards, Cumberland's Hanoverian hussars, the Hessian contingent, the Manchester Regiment, more Franco-Irish, token French regulars, even the Invalid garrison of Edinburgh castle.

It's so much easier today, with lots of figures being produced and a LOT of recent, detailed books appearing (thank you, Stuart Reid and Christopher Duffy and Frank McLynn and Jeremy Black in particular!) and much new uniform info being made available. I used to have to write various clan chiefs requesting information from their archives about clan banners, now all this and more is available in print and/or online.

Your blog looks great, I'm going to bookmark this and try to check in regularly.

Rod MacArthur08 Feb 2017 4:02 a.m. PST

Hi piper909,

My plans look pretty much the same as yours. Because my units are on a 1:30 figure ratio, I will not need 1,500. I currently have 350 British Army and 200 Jacobites, am currently painting another 40 Jacobites (Olgivy's and Lewis Gordon's Regiments, each two battalions of 10 figures), and have a few more planned.

Rod

Tango0108 Feb 2017 10:38 a.m. PST

Glad you enjoyed it too my friend!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2017 11:10 a.m. PST

Hi, Rod -- I initially began organizing my armies in a similar scale ratio, for the same reasons you probably did -- it allows for tidy, manageable representation of all the units at historical strengths. And I initially organized units by historical strengths, which lead to complications when you allow for widely different levels of recruitment and unit organization over the course of the rebellion. I found I had to over-buy for a unit that may only have been at that maximum strength for a very limited time, or I had to keep merging some units, breaking others apart, mounting or dismounting depending on availability of horses at a given point, adding or subtracting firearms, and the usual complications you're familiar with. It was also hard to obtain reliable information on the strength of British Army regiments at any given time, let alone militias and garrisons. And having to find a rules set that would allow for these odd units or extremely small units in some cases proved a problem as well.

I have since abandoned my efforts to design an original rules set (never having found an existing rules set that was adequate for the '45, in my view) and have been playing with my modified variant of The Sword & the Flame, which allows me to create most Jacobite units on the spot at whatever strength level I require, whether historical or hypothetical, and I just assemble these as needed from my pool of representative figure types. (Lowland volunteers, Highland rebel clansmen) -- distinctive types like the Prince's Lifeguards have there own figures but I no longer feel bound to limit them to a certain minimum or maximum size unless I'm constructing a historical scenario. Clan units can be made large or small and I only add a distinctive Chief and Standard Bearer to identify them. Same for the "Lowland" regiments, or "Irregulars" as I distinguish them: since so many nominally "lowland" battalions contained a mix of Highlanders and Lowlanders, and Highland dress might be found in these as well as true Highland units, I use the definitions "Clan" and Irregular" or "Regular" (in the case of the French auxilliaries) to distinguish Jacobite units. Government forces by contrast are almost entirely Regulars (which might be further defined as Raw or Veteran), with some Militia (either loyalist English volunteers or Highland militia from the loyalist clans).

This reduces the number of figures I need to paint, if I so choose, although I long ago bought all the figures I felt I might possibly want or need, and have more than I need now that I've changed my approach to unit organization. Now I can simply paint a large pool of some types -- say, Government clan militia, I don't feel I have to rigidly paint entire distinct units for all the Independent Companies, I only need as many as realistically appeared in any one battle or campaign and swap out flags and leaders to identify them with their historical counterparts.

Most Jacobite infantry units under these rules will appear on the tabletop between 12 and 24 figures strong, in fictional circumstances.

I DO have all the British Army units organized as distinct units, however, so they maintain their correct uniforms -- as a default, I have all my Regular infantry battalions set at 16 figures, or 480 men at a 1:30 scale. I can adjust this to a slight degree if needed and a few battalions are at a larger strength (the 43rd Foot (Black Watch) and Foot Guards, for example, are established at 20 figures since those units were typically at a higher field strength)

I assume you have, in one of its editions, No Quarter Given: The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army? An excellent reference book I wish I'd had when I first began this project! But I picked up the 1988 edition on a trip to Scotland and it spurred me on then to better research and organization.

Rod MacArthur08 Feb 2017 1:28 p.m. PST

Hi piper909,

Actually I did not have "No Quarter Given", but prompted by your post, I do now. I have just bought the Kindle edition at £6.99 GBP and look forward to reading it.

For my British Army, I base all the Regiments of Foot at their average strength at Culloden, which was 420. This translates as 14 figures on my 1:30 scale. This may sound an odd number, but a full strength British Army of that era was organised tactically as 16 Centre platoons plus two grenadier platoons. An under strength battalion, as all of those in the Jacobite Rebellion, would have operated as 12 Centre platoons plus 2 grenadier platoons, which exactly fits my 14 figures. I plan to make my Foot Guards full strength at 18 figures.

My Argyll Militia are two 12 figure battalions, and my Lowland Volunteers two battalions of 16 and 10 figures respectively.

My British cavalry are in 3 figure squadrons, most Regiments of 3 squadrons, but a couple are of 2 squadrons. I do have a couple of figure of Cumberland's Hussars.

My Jacobites are highest strength reached by each unit, so anything between 4 to 20 figures. For a wargame I would temporarily amalgamate the smaller Jacobite units. Some Jacobite cavalry are only in 2 figure troops, but would amalgamate with other units into larger squadrons.

Like you, I have had problems finding rules which I really like, and have embryonic plans to write my own.

Rod

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2017 9:50 p.m. PST

Ahoy, Rod -- I believe you will greatly enjoy "No Quarter Given" (despite some inherent incompleteness and inconsistencies -- I freely annotate my copy of the revised print edition when I find new or conflicting information), and let me know if you find a rules set to your liking! Most rules for this era focus on the large, Continental campaigns and aren't detailed or focused enough to capture the feel of the '45, in my view. But when you recognize how "colonial" some aspects of the '45 were, compared to the conventional, large, European conflicts, you realize that a Colonial set of rules might make a good launching pad for an excellent game simulation, and so I have found with TS&TF.

FYI, A few of my figures can be seen here,

link

And a recent-ish wargame here: link

This is an odd corner of the wargaming world, but a fascinating one for some of us, glad you share my enthusiam for this period!

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