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"French uniforms 1812 vs 1815" Topic

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HappyHiker06 Feb 2017 3:48 p.m. PST

What's the difference in french uniforms from 1812 to Waterloo?
I get many wore great coats at waterloo, but perry do a mix of great coats and normal coats in there Waterloo box. So I guess there were both ? If I were to get some victrix french from 1812, would they still be accurate for Waterloo? I'd like to get some non marching french to spice things up a bit.

4th Cuirassier06 Feb 2017 4:17 p.m. PST

Depends what you mean by 1812. 1812 was when the Bardin uniform was authorised but it wasn't issued in significant numbers until 1813. Differences in appearance between early and late Bardin eras would thus depend on theatre, season, etc.

Pre-Bardin you had a different coat style so they'd look different. I think the over the knee gaiters were discontinued in 1812 too.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian06 Feb 2017 4:51 p.m. PST

Really it gets down to how many times do you want to paint French (or anyone else).

I went with 1812 because that covers most of the scenarios I play. I use them for 1809 or 1815 in a pinch.

Go with the look you like, you'll be painting a lot of them evil grin

wrgmr106 Feb 2017 5:01 p.m. PST

+1 Saber6

Old Glory Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Feb 2017 6:38 p.m. PST

Here is how I seperated my French by time period.
1. French in Shako
2. French in bicorne

Russ Dunaway

Camcleod06 Feb 2017 8:15 p.m. PST

The Victrix french are in the earlier style coats, but if you trim the coat tails a bit and the bottom front of the waistcoat, remove a few front buttons and position the arms across the chest … you can make a close approximation to the 1815 look to the figures.

setsuko06 Feb 2017 11:19 p.m. PST

My approach to my French army in Russia 1812 is to mix and match. It's a convenient excuse to field nice miniatures in both the older and newer uniforms: more choises and less stress! Not 100% accurate, but close enough for me.

So for example, my line infantry is mostly from the perry 1812-1815 box, so I just assume those regiments got their Bardin uniforms early. My light infantry carabiniers have an earlier uniform, still fielding bear fur hats etc. My justification is that they had a stodgy officer who held on to the old style, even though it's really because I love the models! ;)

Given that there was a mix of styles in 1812 I feel that I can live with some of my choices being possibly anachronistic (afaik the dragoons got bardin uniforms in 1813, but the perry plastic dragoons are just great, and so on).

von Winterfeldt07 Feb 2017 12:22 a.m. PST

in 1812 no Bardin uniforms – in 1815 Bardin uniforms, the infantry with round lapes was still around in spring 1813 and only gradually replaced with the Bardin (straight lapels huge shakos) uniform.

often boxes labeled 1812 are dead wrong and should be labeled 1814 / 15 or just Bardin uniforms

Col Blancard07 Feb 2017 2:29 a.m. PST

and let's not get started about flags. The 1804 pattern, the 1812 pattern, the 1815 pattern… and the cockades whose colours were swapped in 1815…

Focus on your main campaign of interest, then accept approximations when it comes to gaming other campaigns.

laretenue07 Feb 2017 3:27 a.m. PST

Greatcoats and shako covers. In 6mm …

HappyHiker07 Feb 2017 4:42 a.m. PST

ok thanks, I may just get Old guard to start with then and see how I go. I'm not sure how many battalions we can actually fit on the dinning room table anyway!

setsuko07 Feb 2017 5:46 a.m. PST

That sounds like a good approach. If you buy too many miniatures at once, chances are that you'll feel overburdened. Build and paint up a battalion at a time, and you'll do great. :)

keithbarker07 Feb 2017 2:01 p.m. PST

If you are only going to be playing with a few battalions, you probably don't want to start with the Old Guard! They only made up a very small portion of the army.

IMHO lots of gamers new to a period start with rare items like Old Guard or King Tigers when they would historically get much more use from line infantry or a Panzer IV

seneffe07 Feb 2017 2:18 p.m. PST

I think the current research based on contemp illustrations and comment is that the Bardin '1812' uniform began to be issued in serious quantities to the Grande Armee in Germany during the summer armistice of 1813, although I have never seen details of which particular regts got it when, or when troops on other fronts began to receive it.

HappyHiker08 Feb 2017 1:02 p.m. PST

I'm afraid our historical accuracy will extend to each battalion, but I'm making no attempt to model a division correctly, I thought about it but decided it would be more colourful to have various units from various divisions. The french especially have the same voltiers in a division, at least if you choose carefully the voltiers have different plumes.. also we'll probably do a Dutch and a nassau regiment for variety and the Hanoverians have to have flat caps(most didn't really) and blue trousers just to add flavour. Having started of not caring less about historical accuracy I have been sucked into doing all the cuffs just so etc. But if I worry about the divisions I'll want to do all of them, and that wat madness lies. I reckon 5-10 battalions a side will more than fill the table, then I need to get out the house more….( though I can see 3 cannons a side might not really do justice, and maybe I should have two highland regiments not just one, then what about the Swiss…)

Rusty Gold Inactive Member19 Apr 2017 5:41 a.m. PST

Could someone intimate in Uniforms create a list of what Manufacturer/ Box set /Packet suits what year please . Lots of writers add comment , so they know something the rest of us don't

Tyler32628 Apr 2017 12:11 p.m. PST

Here is a tidbit to go by: Supply even in most modern armies can take months to change over uniforms from one to another. In the 1800's it would have been even worse considering distance and time to get to units if at all. Most field armies did not get changed over except when their uniform wore out or they went back to their depot for a refit. So yes .. many mixes of uniforms in that time frame.

Trajanus28 Apr 2017 12:16 p.m. PST

I'd always thought the only army to completely have the Bardin uniform, well those having a complete uniform, was in 1815.

von Winterfeldt28 Apr 2017 1:37 p.m. PST

Yes – pre Bardin will be usefull up to 1814

seneffe28 Apr 2017 3:22 p.m. PST

Research in the last few years indicates that the 1812 Bardin uniform began to be issued in quantity to the Grande Armee during the summer armistice of 1813.

The GA would have priority but other armies likely did begin to receive he new uniforms (maybe in lesser quantities) during mid-late 1813 too as uniforms were produced in a number of centres. Denis Dighton shows French infantry in both old pattern and 1812 Bardin pattern uniforms in his later Peninsula illustrations.

John Miller Inactive Member29 Apr 2017 3:29 p.m. PST

My impression coincides with that of Trajanus above. It may not be an issue with you but, IMHO, you would get more bang for your buck from the pre Bardin uniforms. Just a thought. In all honesty however, I must confess a bias here because I don't think the Bardin uniforms are as appealing as the earlier issue. Romance, toujour, romance!!! John Miller

von Winterfeldt01 May 2017 4:00 a.m. PST

"In all honesty however, I must confess a bias here because I don't think the Bardin uniforms are as appealing as the earlier issue."

I share this bias ;-))

MDavout Inactive Member08 May 2017 9:39 p.m. PST

VW – no question about that. The Pokelem especially!

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