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"Imperial Guard Hussars And Cuirassiers" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

Don Sebastian04 Feb 2017 9:56 a.m. PST

Did Napoleon ever plan to raise any Hussar or Cuirassier regimento for his Imperial Guard?

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP04 Feb 2017 10:30 a.m. PST

No,the CaC filled the roll of Hussars and the Carabiniers that of Cuirassiers.

Methinks however that Nappy III had hussars and cuirassiers in his Guard.

Gonsalvo04 Feb 2017 10:43 a.m. PST

(The Grenadiers a Cheval filled the role of Cuirassiers, albeit unarmored, as were the [line] Carabiniers until circa 1810)

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP04 Feb 2017 11:27 a.m. PST

There was the thought that the Young Garde, at the Hundred Days, might have been retitled as hussars, eventually, I recall.

The Gardes d'Honneur were very Hussar like and are generally regarded as Imperial Guard.

Carabiniers were never truly Garde Imperiale, but had the pretensions, under Boney I.

Louis XVIII was working on getting the Grenadiers into cuirasses when Boney spoilt it all by turning up once more!

Lilian04 Feb 2017 11:45 a.m. PST

The last Imperial Guard of the Hundred-Days had a short-lived Hussar Regiment renamed quickly 2nd Horse Chasseurs Regiment of the Guard in red pelisses


in 1813 after the Gendarmes d'Ordonnance of 1806-1807 Napoleon planned to raise from the old Nobility a 6 squadrons (1489 men) Gardes du Corps Regiment with cuirasses and dressed with green uniforms instead of the traditionnal blue of the cuirassiers, their appearance would have been like green cuirassiers

ultimately due to several reasons this planned regiment had been substituted with the newly-raised 4 Honour Guard Regiments not belonging to the Imperial Guard dressed like hussars

Regards
Loc

Don Sebastian04 Feb 2017 12:39 p.m. PST

Thank you, guys!
Also, Lic, do you know any book with more information about those plans for a imperial Gardes du Corps?

EDIT: I found some mentions about a proposed Guard Cuirassier uniform made by artist Louis David. Does anyone knows more about It? Here is one of sucursal mentions:
link

Lilian04 Feb 2017 3:44 p.m. PST

very interesting, I know there was at least 5 projects

David also inspired by Ancient Rome having given to the French uniformoly 10 years before its ugliest uniform for the poors cadets of the short-lived military training camp-School of Mars in 1794

for the Roman-Greek-Medieval David's project 4 horse grenadiers were dressed with helmet la romaine (something like Carabiniers helmet) a cuirass with imperial eagle and jackets drawing chainmail pattern

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP04 Feb 2017 4:04 p.m. PST

The two regiments of carabiniers did not have either Guard status or belong to the Imperial Guard. They were elite heavy cavalry, as were the cuirassiers.

The newly-raised 2d Regiment of Chasseurs a Cheval in 1815 was originally titled Hussars of the Guard.

Napoleon also planned a Young Guard lancer regiment and a Regiment de Tirailleurs a Cheval in 1815.

Don Sebastian04 Feb 2017 9:27 p.m. PST

Was there any uniform planned for those Tirailleurs a Cheval And Young Guard lancers?

Supercilius Maximus05 Feb 2017 2:41 a.m. PST

Napoleon also planned a Young Guard lancer regiment…

Weren't the 3rd Guard Lancer Regiment, raised from Poles in 1812 and destroyed in Russia, and half of the 10 squadrons of the re-raised Dutch Lancers in 1813, also Young Guard?

Gratian Inactive Member05 Feb 2017 4:09 a.m. PST

That's right The 3rd Lithuanian….but from Poland.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP05 Feb 2017 5:39 a.m. PST

The 3d Regiment de Chevau-Legers Lanciers were formed mostly from Lithuanian noblemen and were probably initially designated Young Guard. Two of their squadrons were surprised by the Russians while still training and largely destroyed. The survivors of the regiment went into the Polish Lancer regiment (1st Guard Lancers).

After Russia, the 2d (Red) Lancers were reestablished in 1813 with the dragoons of the Garde de Paris, various volunteers and the cavalrymen from Joseph's former Guard and became a French regiment.

For 1813 all of the Guard cavalry regiments were supposed to have a Young Guard equivalent. Both the Grenadiers a Cheval and Dragoons had a 300-man 6th Squadron and the 1st Lancers had three Old Guard squadrons (six companies) and nine Young Guard companies. The chasseurs a cheval had five Young Guard squadrons plus the Mameluke Squadron for ten total.

The 2d Lancers probably had an equivalent structure for 1813. On 20 January 1813 they had eight squadrons being formed and reequipped. On 1 February the regiment in total 1141 with 1276 horses. The goal Napoleon wanted for the regiment was five Old Guard squadrons and three Young Guard squadrons.

Lilian05 Feb 2017 9:07 a.m. PST

Tirailleurs cheval that is not an other unit but the initial name who should be given to the Hussars of the Guard who had been also named Hussars-Scouts or Scouts-Lancers Hussards Eclaireurs / Eclaireurs Lanciers as it was also planned to name them Eclaireurs Lanciers like the 3rd Regiment of Scouts of 1814 attached to the (1st) Polish Chevau-lgers Lanciers

the 26th may 1815 the aborted Horse Tirailleurs, Eclaireurs Lanciers, Hussards Eclaireurs or just Guard Hussars became 2e Chasseurs cheval

Don Sebastian13 Mar 2017 11:36 p.m. PST

Dear Lilian, you mentioned "I know there was at least 5 projects". What were those 5 projects? And do you know any good book which mentions the "cuirass with imperial eagle and jackets drawing chainmail pattern" proposed uniform?

Aldo, thank you Very much for your Help so Far!

Don Sebastian14 Mar 2017 8:18 a.m. PST

I found the sources describing the uniforms you mentioned (on google books)! Now My remaining curiosity is only related to the 5 uniform projects mentioned.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP15 Mar 2017 1:55 p.m. PST

Tirailleurs cheval that is not an other unit but the initial name who should be given to the Hussars of the Guard who had been also named Hussars-Scouts or Scouts-Lancers Hussards Eclaireurs / Eclaireurs Lanciers as it was also planned to name them Eclaireurs Lanciers like the 3rd Regiment of Scouts of 1814 attached to the (1st) Polish Chevau-lgers Lanciers
the 26th may 1815 the aborted Horse Tirailleurs, Eclaireurs Lanciers, Hussards Eclaireurs or just Guard Hussars became 2e Chasseurs cheval

What is your source for this information? I'd like to have it for my files and research.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP15 Mar 2017 2:02 p.m. PST

…4 Honour Guard Regiments not belonging to the Imperial Guard dressed like hussars

I do believe that the four Gardes d'Honneur regiments had
Guard status.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP15 Mar 2017 2:05 p.m. PST

…for the Roman-Greek-Medieval David's project 4 horse grenadiers were dressed with helmet la romaine (something like Carabiniers helmet) a cuirass with imperial eagle and jackets drawing chainmail pattern

Apparently, when David paraded the four grenadiers a cheval in front of the Emperor and some other senior officers, even Murat was shocked at the gaudy appearance and the project was abandoned. The new 'uniform' 'combined the worst aspects of the Middle Ages and ancient Greece and Rome.'

Don Sebastian18 Mar 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

Does anyone have any Idea of what could have been those other 5 projects mentioned by Lilian?

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