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"2mm King Stephen/Matilda and The Anarchy" Topic

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Crow Bait01 Feb 2017 4:16 p.m. PST

I read a article about this in a wargame magazine years ago and always wanted to try it. So, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a couple of books on the subject and a good set of rules. I will probably do this in 2mm, so the rules cannot require individual figure removal, and base size should be irrelevant as long as both sides use the same standards. I will be raising both sides, easy and cheap to do in 2mm. Any suggestions from the members would be greatly appreciated.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2017 4:36 p.m. PST

This is a good introduction to the period


Jim Bradbury is a pretty sound medieval military historian

kodiakblair01 Feb 2017 4:54 p.m. PST

2mm eh, Fantastic. You're a man after my own heart Crow Bait :)

No idea about what rules to use but rest assured with 1000s of
those wee fellas on the table it'll look grand.

Allen5701 Feb 2017 5:23 p.m. PST

De Bellis Antiquitus (DBA) or De Bellis Magistrorum Militum (DBMM). I have also used Hordes of the Things (HOTT)for the middle ages. Another possibility are the Irregular Miniatures Rules box for Ancients link simple and fun.

nsolomon9901 Feb 2017 7:20 p.m. PST

Fascinating period.

"To The Strongest" from Simon Millar works really well with 2mm.

Piquet Rules01 Feb 2017 7:37 p.m. PST

Will you be painting the heraldry?

Great War Ace01 Feb 2017 7:50 p.m. PST

2mm. Hmm! The battles of the CW were not that big. You could play them on a card table in 2mm.

Toronto4801 Feb 2017 9:37 p.m. PST

L'Arte de la Guerre will give you larger battles where tactics become an issue IMHO the DBX stable makes it dificult o play historical games

Their army lists provide a number of opponents for the time you are looking at gamimg is based on bases so individual figure removal is not an issue

Feudal Europe
172 – Norman or Frankish
173 – Anglo-Danish
174 – Anglo-Norman
175 – Feudal French
176 – Feudal English
177 – Feudal Scots
178 – Anglo-Irish
179 – Scots Isles and Highlanders

kodiakblair02 Feb 2017 3:18 a.m. PST

Piquet Rules

Of course you paint the heraldry,it's just you only paint the parts your opponent would see from 1/4 mile away.

Great War Ace

In 2mm a card table only covers 600 x 600 yards,big enough for Lincoln Castle but not much else.

Crow Bait02 Feb 2017 6:53 a.m. PST

Thanks for the replies.

20thmaine I just ordered the book, thanks.

Kodiakblair My WWI, SCW, and WWII armies (and I mean armies)are all 2mm. I use Mein Panzer rules from ODGW for the rules. Scale Creep Miniatures had the ODGW American Battlelines rules on sale for $5.00 USD, so I picked up those and 2 army in 2mm to use as American and Mexican divisions in the MAW.I am waiting for the bases to arrive from Litko to finish them up. Yeah, they are small, but the advantages are great.

I have DBA 2.2, but was looking for something to give larger number of units in a game. I will check out To the Strongest and L'Arte de la Guerre. Thanks for the recommendations.

Of course I will paint the Heraldry! I just have to research what color eyes people had during that time before I could paint them ;-)

vtsaogames02 Feb 2017 10:06 a.m. PST

There's always Big Battle DBA or its cousin Triumph!

Just use twice as many (or 3 times as many, etc.) elements/units.

Triumph basic armies are 12 – 20 units each, using a point system. Of course you can double up.

kodiakblair02 Feb 2017 11:34 a.m. PST

Crow Bait

Like yourself I'm no stranger to the wonders of 2mm.Mine started as a travel DBA set but the possibilities quickly showed. Went for the Roman Invasion of Scotland first and now have 4 Legions with attendant Auxilia/cavalry at 1:1 ratio.Need a very large table to field that lot :-)

I'll be keeping an eye out for updates from you,will be pinching ideas as well.

Great War Ace02 Feb 2017 2:33 p.m. PST

600 x 600 yards. That would about do it. I was being only a little facetious. Really, the CW involved small numbers of troops. During the disturbance, only the battle of Northallerton was a genuine field battle, both in size and duration. Outside Lincoln, when Stephen was captured, both armies were small, only a thousand each or thereabouts. Easily, the whole thing took place in less than 600 yards.

Crow Bait02 Feb 2017 5:38 p.m. PST

Table size was what initially drew me to 2mm. I use to travel a lot for work, and was looking for something you could play on a hotel room table.

Great War Ace02 Feb 2017 6:02 p.m. PST

I can appreciate that decision. But why that small? The ground scale can work with larger figures. You can still play on a small table. Is it the love of massed ranks from a distance? Does the abstraction of "one figure represents many ranks" offend? I know it does some gamers. I know of a guy who loves 25s and 28s, and won't play any games with abstraction. If the line is eight ranks deep, his figures are arrayed eight ranks deep, end of discussion. Of course, the room required, not to mention the cost in time, treasure and energy, for such games, is huge. :O

kodiakblair02 Feb 2017 7:06 p.m. PST

You hit the nail on the head for me Great War Ace.
Back in 91 I thought DBA was a great idea,until I painted up 2 forces and tried it.Large figures on a small board just look terrible IMHO,even in 6mm with 300 odd cavalry figures per side.

There was at least 25,000 troops involved in the Battle of the Standard,a good crowd for a modern sporting event.If I compare my view from the terraces to across the table even 6mm fails miserably.

Crow Bait02 Feb 2017 7:11 p.m. PST

I like 2mm cause I like being able to cary 2 armies and terrain in a small plano box. You can raise 2 armies at very little cost, and paint both in very little time. I base one 2mm stand to a stand, usually 20X10 or 20X15.I also have both 15 and 25/28mm miniatures. 4 divisions for Flintloque/Slaughterloo, 4 warhammer and 5 40K armies, Boxer Rebellion, and War of Texas Independence in 28mm. Vietnam in 20mm, Renaissance and FOW in 15mm. I guess it's just a personal preference. Once I started, I knew that was where I wanted to stay. Don't get me wrong, if I ever do Napoleonics, I will move up to 3mm.

Crow Bait02 Feb 2017 7:17 p.m. PST

Kodiakblair, does Piquet Archon have the army list for 1139-1153 Feudal English?

Martin Rapier02 Feb 2017 11:16 p.m. PST

I did Edgehill at 1:1 in 2mm.

A fabulous scale, just make sure you mark the backs of the bases so the guys face the right way:)

kodiakblair03 Feb 2017 2:36 a.m. PST

Sorry Crow Bait.

Archon jumps from Viking Age to The Crusades.Band of Brothers covers 1200AD to 1600AD but has Army tables for English,Welsh, Scots and Irish between 1200AD – 1328AD.

Elenderil18 Feb 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

In praise of 2mm it has to be said that there don't have to be any abstractions at all. 1:1 figure ratio and 1mm to the yard/metre/pace creates realistic battlefield relationships of ground to unit size to weapon ranges.

Although tables can be smaller by creating more space the anchoring a flank on the table edge tactic can be abolished. This forces proper ideas of deployment to protect flanks. There are more opportunities for manoeuvre inthose periods where it happened.

For me 2mm is great for really portraying middle sized to big field actions.

Bozkashi Jones11 Jun 2017 4:45 p.m. PST

I've been thinking about 2mm too and a similar period, but I can't see that Irregular have any medievals. Any suggestions for what codes are suitable for knights, medieval foot soldiers and Scots in this scale?

I'm planning on DBA with 40mm bases, so also grateful if anyone could advise on the frontages of Irregular's strips…



kodiakblair04 Nov 2017 2:16 p.m. PST

@Bozkashi Jones

Sorry I was looking through old threads and just spotted your post. In 2mm things like specific Medieval figures don't really matter.How you decide to paint and base figures does. For knights the Ancient lancers or Renaissance Gendarmes work well, Ancient close order archers could be longbow. Scots could be Greek hoplites or the pikemen blocks.

If you think about the scale 1mm = 3ft then would you really expect to see a sugarloaf helm or a kettle helm ? For 3mm Saga/Dux Brit games I happily use hoplites for Saxons,the painted round shield stands out much more than a plumed helmet painted as hair.

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