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"Mirco Armour at 1:1 scale" Topic


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Art27 Jan 2017 12:54 p.m. PST

G'Day Gents,

Does anyone use micro armour at 1:1 scale?

I just took a look at what 1/72 armour is going for….shocked!

I had an entire US Armored Division…but the mini' were very cheap back then…

Best Regards
Art

The Beast Rampant27 Jan 2017 1:08 p.m. PST

Don't rule out 10mm! The infantry have a lot more character, but are just as quick to paint.

11th ACR27 Jan 2017 1:09 p.m. PST

I used to do my WW-II on a 1:1 scale many years ago and I think it works well as long as your rules are not to detailed.

I went with a 1-4 scale system just so I could do larger actions (Battalion instead of Company size).

I'm now doing Cold War as well as WW-II. But I do not care for the T.Y. or F.O.W. systems or syndrome so I use my own rules to keep it simple.

And I use a 1" = 100 meters on the game table.

But its very easy to extend that distance to make it 1-1 scale for range. Just triple the range and movement distance.

My rules are a combination of what I have seen as good point in rules that I have use since 1974.

But there still being worked on after many years.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 1:17 p.m. PST

I play Flames of War, heavily modified, as well as Fistful of TOWs III, both at 1:1, with MicroArmor.

Micman Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 1:45 p.m. PST

I game WWII and Modern in 1 to 1 using micro armor.

Whirlwind27 Jan 2017 2:09 p.m. PST

Hello Art,

Did you mean for micro-armour in general or this specific game?

If the former, yes, pretty much always 1:1. Often I use a ground scale close to 1:300 or so as well.

PzGeneral27 Jan 2017 2:24 p.m. PST

Tigers and Stalins is designed for 1/285th (6mm). One tank mini is one tank. Infantry stands represent a squad……

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 2:40 p.m. PST

I do micro armor (1:300 models and 1:1000 ground) at 1:1 scale for Striker and Striker II.

Brad Jenison27 Jan 2017 3:23 p.m. PST

I do 1:1 often with micro armor and with 15mm. Of course the size of the units is much smaller with 15mm and the types of battle are very different. A Dragon ATGM can easily fire across the entire table in 15mm. I elected to go to Fist Full of TOWs for large scale battles in the Cold War era. We routinely play a reinforced Soviet Motorized Rifle Battalion versus a company team for NATO and fit it on a 4 X 8 foot table. I played two games of Team Yankee with Harry Coyle at the last Recruits convention. He too used micro-armor and we played both US Army and Bundeswehr defending against a large Soviet attack. US Army victorious in game 1 and Soviets winning against Bundeswehr in game two. In my opinion to do battles with that many vehicles in 15mm would have required maybe half a basketball court.

The Beast Rampant27 Jan 2017 3:34 p.m. PST

Tigers and Stalins is designed for 1/285th

I have been hearing about T&S for ages, and have no idea where to go about finding a copy.

Bellbottom27 Jan 2017 4:10 p.m. PST

All our modern micro armour games are done at 1:1

Mako1127 Jan 2017 6:05 p.m. PST

Pitting microarmor against full-sized armored vehicles doesn't seem very fair.

I do use microarmor at a 1:1 "ratio" though, all the time, for wargaming.

coopman27 Jan 2017 7:23 p.m. PST

The Beast Rampant,

See how to buy "Stalins & Tigers" here:

TMP link

Wolfhag27 Jan 2017 7:39 p.m. PST

I really like the micro armor because it gives the best scale representation of a battle. I play 1" = 25 meters. So much easier to paint too.

Wolfhag

The Beast Rampant27 Jan 2017 10:10 p.m. PST

Thanks, Coopman!

Art27 Jan 2017 10:21 p.m. PST

G'Day Gents

Thanks for all the info…

Not quite certain what scale to start at now….

Now a few stupid questions if I may…in the 70's when we had mini tanks: it was you move then I move.

Are there any rules today that has simultaneous movement?

Have the rules today fixed the problem of the "panzer dash"..which occurred in our old rules we used the 70's…

You were only permitted to fire on your turn…so a player could moves from cover to cover each turn so his tanks were protected at the end of his movement…

Or

A player could move up close and fire…while his opponent just had to sit and watch his tanks being destroyed..unable to fire…then with his remaining tanks on his turn…he could then fire.

Best Regards
Art

Art28 Jan 2017 12:17 a.m. PST

G'Day Gents

Yet another question…

For WW II…is there a site that has diagrams of various armored formations for the major powers?

Best Regards
Art

Art28 Jan 2017 4:49 a.m. PST

G'Day Gents

The last of my stupid questions…

In most rules…what happens when a tank leaves its formation?

Or is it even addressed…

As an example…we were told in the 70s that only the Russian company commander had a radio (WW II)…so there was no coordinated fire upon a target…

And if a tank left the formation it quite often got lost…or strayed…therefore we rolled a random dice for its direction…

I am not into complicated rules…so I am just wondering…sorry…


Best Regards
Art

Addendum

"Did you mean for micro-armour in general or this specific game?"

I am not quite certain how to answer that question…do I buy rules first (for this game)…or decide upon a scale first…does this game allow different scales?

OK…I lied…last question….what are the pros and cons of micro armour vs 10mm?

Whirlwind28 Jan 2017 2:00 p.m. PST

Sorry Art,

I meant that I think this board (in theory) is aimed at the specific GHQ rules "Micro Armour: the Game" link rather than micro armour WW2 wargaming in general. I was just checking which you were referring to.

14th NJ Vol28 Jan 2017 7:26 p.m. PST

GHQ Microsquad is 1 model = 1 tank, 1 stand of infantry = a squad.

Wolfhag29 Jan 2017 5:17 p.m. PST

Art,
I have a collection of GHQ micro armor and 10mm. I like both scales. For me the advantage with micro armor is I like a scale of 1" = 25 meters and micro armor is better portrayed at that level. The 10mm look better on the table and I prefer them at conventions because it attracts more people.

My micro armor collection has a much better selection and was much cheaper.

Wolfhag

Art02 Feb 2017 8:10 a.m. PST

G'Day Whirlwind

I think you will find this thread of interest….

TMP link

But be warned…you may end up buying new rules ;-)

G'Day Wolfhag…so micro armor will work better with your new set of rules…?


Best Regards
Art

Whirlwind03 Feb 2017 9:54 a.m. PST

Thanks Art, I wil have a look.

Art04 Feb 2017 5:09 p.m. PST

G'Day Gents

This is getting hard…

I can not make up my mind…as to whether I should get micro armour or 15mm…

I must have changed my mind ten times today…and another five times tonight going over the various companies that sell them…

At a 1:1 scale…I only need a company for each side…with a few odd tanks thrown in every now and then…

Best Regards
Art

Wolfhag02 Mar 2017 11:40 p.m. PST

Art,
If you are looking for German and Russian micro armor I am selling part of my collection.

Wolfhag

CavScout8thCav05 Jun 2017 2:50 a.m. PST

We play exclusively 1 to 1 for our micro armor. To solve the panzer dash question of you move I move we added an opportunity fire phase in during movement. Side A moves and side B may fire any vehicles that did not move the previous movement phase, at visible moving enemy vehicles. Then when side B moves side A has opportunity fire.

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2017 6:48 p.m. PST

Pardon the late entry to the thread, but thought I might chime in (provided everyone has not already packed up and gone home).

To the question of 1-to-1 unit scales, I play 1-to-1 for vehicles, with squad-stands for infantry. There are rules that do 1-to-1 vehicles and fireteam-stands for infantry … I played several over the years and decided to shy away from them due to the difficulties in managing combined-arms engagements. With 10 models to a Russian tank company, but 36 stands to a Russian infantry company, guess what happened to the game turn time when infantry appeared on the table?

My preferred ruleset now is ODGW's Mein Panzer. For vehicle combat they are relatively fast-play, with just about enough detail to keep me interested. I like the turn sequence a lot -- it addresses a lot of the failings of I-go-U-go, helps fix some of the "panzer dash" issues, but interestingly enough also easily addresses the "what happens when a vehicle wanders off from the platoon" question.

In the turn sequence, each player generally activates ONE unit per phase in the turn. Usually a "unit" is a platoon. All players in the game do this simultaneously, in game terms. In practice we do it one at a time, but any combat results are considered simultaneous IN THE PHASE (not in the turn).

Each player activates one unit per phase, unless he has more total units than the other players, in which case he gets to activate two units on his first phase or two. (This provides interesting advantages to players with more units.)

Every unit gets one, and only one, activation per turn. The player decides which unit will be activated in each phase, until they have all be activated.

Each element in an activated unit generally gets 1 move, and 1 action. That action can be any of a variety of things … spotting, shooting, communicating, conducting engineering tasks, whatever kinds of actions that unit might be capable of. If suppressed, the action can be an attempt to remove the suppression. This makes a unit that has successfully un-suppressed capable of only one further thing in the turn -- movement. This has the interesting effect that units that are losing the battle to suppress wind up pulling back -- if they use their actions to un-suppress instead of shooting, the enemy will get closer and more dangerous turn by turn. All they can do is sit still and eventually die, or move back until they can make it through a turn without getting suppressed.

The action can also be a move -- which means units that are not doing anything else in the turn can double-move. And conversely means that units that are double-moving can't do anything else in the turn.

But elements that are outside of command-control radius from their unit get ONLY an action, no separate move. So you can leave an element behind to provide a base of fire while you advance, and they will be able to continue firing, but they become incapable of moving and shooting in one phase as the unit commander moves away, and when you finally do want to move them up to rejoin, they are incapable of combat while moving, or double-speed movements, and they have to stop to communicate, or spot, or whatever.

The panzer dash is addressed in a couple of ways. One of the actions most units can undertake is an overwatch. When you activate, you set them on overwatch in a particular direction. In any phase until their next activation, they can perform one phase worth of fire on any target(s) that moves into sight in that direction.

Guessing which unit your opponent is going to activate first, second, third, etc. puts interesting dynamics into the game. It's hard to dash out of sight when you don't know if your opponent is going to activate the unit that can see you during the same phase (and so get simultaneous results with your movement), or if he will activate some other unit, allowing you to get behind cover before the unit that could have fired on you gets activated.

As to Russian poor coordination (due to lack of radios, lack of training, etc.), there is provision for less advanced armies to activate by company rather than by platoon. That means, for example that a Russian battalion of 21 tanks might get perhaps 3 activation (2 companies and a 1 tank HQ), while a German company of 14 or 17 tanks might get 4 activations (3 platoons and CHQ zug). You will find that even though a) The Germans have fewer tanks, and b) the Germans are only activating 4 or 5 tanks in most phases, versus the Russians activating 10 tanks most phases, that the Germans can outmaneuver the Russians by having more flexibility in how they activate.

Another side advantage of the unit activation sequence is that it is simply more fun to play the game when you are constantly involved. Each phase all the players are active. You don't have to try to stay awake while you sit doing nothing as the other guy figures out exactly the perfect move for each of his 36 infantry stands.

In my experience it's the best ruleset I've seen for WW2 combined arms action where each player has perhaps a company plus one or two supporting units, and games might have a battalion plus support per side. Not enough of a ruleset if you want ultimate detail for platoon-per-player, and perhaps a bit too much of a ruleset if you want 3 battalions per side (although I haven't tried a game at that size yet, so who knows, maybe it works better than I anticipate).

Your mileage may vary.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Lee49421 Sep 2017 10:16 p.m. PST

So Art … what scake did you go with? Love to hear the epilogue to these threads. Cheers! Lee

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