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"Legion 4 - Locked Account?" Topic


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8,218 hits since 27 Jan 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Tango0127 Jan 2017 11:29 a.m. PST

Why?

Controversial or not Ralph is a great Customary
And very active fellow member…

What have happened?


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jan 2017 11:41 a.m. PST

Despite warnings, he broke forum rules too many times.

Tango0127 Jan 2017 12:25 p.m. PST

Bill… you can get him 30 dias or more … but locked out is too hard…

He is not agressive as others… you know… are still here…

I was not aware that there is a limit number of broken rules here…

How much is it?… interesting to know…


Amicalement
Armand

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 12:29 p.m. PST

WOW! He was a good dude.

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 1:16 p.m. PST

Comes under the heading of 'liable to be controversial but I would overall consider his comments to be useful.'

Personal logo HidaSeku Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 1:32 p.m. PST

Perhaps a lengthy dawghouse stay instead of being locked out?

I found his posts to be very helpful and insightful.

jefritrout27 Jan 2017 1:50 p.m. PST

I also think that he can be controversial, but I do not think a lock out is warranted, and yes I did read that entire thread. There are others that I disagree with immensely, but would not like them locked out either. I too support a longer stint in the doghouse than normal.

General Disaster27 Jan 2017 1:54 p.m. PST

Probably best just to dawghouse him, there have been too many bannings lately.
He's high profile and this will just cause more drama which TMP doesn't need right now

KTravlos Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 2:34 p.m. PST

Ah I see ultra-modern.

Rogues127 Jan 2017 2:54 p.m. PST

Bill,

I am not sure I have ever posted here to "free" anyone but I have to say that over the years Legion 4 has had an incredible perspective on a number of current issues that is both knowledgeable and fair. He has a bias, but he is also willing to engage in civil conversations on topics when folks discuss facts and not just emotional responses. I cannot comment on the final straw that he broke, but I would hope that you reconsider and give him time in the cooler and then let him back in with a stern warning. It is the people and their perspectives that make this forum more engaging than say Boardgame Geek which is useful but not as entertaining. Thanks

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 3:51 p.m. PST

I rarely comment in these sort of things but I believe your actions to be unduely harsh, Bill.

My thoughts are… largely what most everyone else said.

Your train set: your rules. Yep – we all get it.

Again…

Tell you what, why don't you put the charges up while you're at it?

Yours in frustration.

John Treadaway

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 5:18 p.m. PST

He is a staple of TMP!

Banning him would be like banning other things that are staples of things.

General Disaster27 Jan 2017 5:40 p.m. PST

He is a staple of TMP!

Banning him would be like banning other things that are staples of things.

We could swap him for some glue or Scotch Tape instead

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 5:44 p.m. PST

It's like putting things on top of other things.

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 5:59 p.m. PST

Or redundantly repeating things, over and over and over and over…until it's like Deja vu, all over again… redundantly!

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jan 2017 6:02 p.m. PST

The problem is that he seems incapable of controlling himself when it comes to commenting on Muslims or Arabs.

I have spoken to him many times. He has been DH'd many times.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 6:03 p.m. PST

He kept repeating the same things and wondering why he kept getting caught.
Off with his head! grin

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jan 2017 6:10 p.m. PST

I suppose I could just ban him from the Ultramodern Warfare board…?

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 6:22 p.m. PST

I suppose I could just ban him from the Ultramodern Warfare board…?

Brilliant! I gather Ralph had posts of worth on the gaming boards & I am very aware of Bill's admission TMP is ailing, perhaps terminally.
We lost 3 TMPers of worth a few days ago; can we afford to bleed more members? Dawghousing, as Bill points out, doesn't seem able to halt Ralph's distasteful comments but do we want to lose him entirely?

And could we take this further? I know Bill has no time for bigotry, calls for genocide & racial & religious intolerance etc. Could *anyone* who is guilty of such on the UM boards be banned from there as as well? How many warnings? I rather like the NYC policy of Zero Tolerance but that's up to Bill.

How this might improve TMP! Look at the Dawghouse now. Two of the inmates are guilty of bigotry. And that's the norm. Clean up UM & we may be able to lift our image.

I would humbly accept this new law being called "OCHOIN'S LAW".

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 6:22 p.m. PST

Our loss. More DH no ban.

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 6:37 p.m. PST

Locking his account does seem rather severe.

I value his input.

Stavka27 Jan 2017 6:38 p.m. PST

So is the point of the Dawghouse deterrence, or just a revolving door, slap-on-the-wrist punishment? How much time do you want to have to spend dealing with this kind of thing, Bill?

I'm unsympathetic. He chose to post such tripe, has done it many times before and has been called out in it, so he gets what is coming to him.

The responsibility is his; if he has been warned- multiple times evidently- and he lacks the self-discipline to respect forum rules, then let him take the consequences- as we all have to do in life.

You made a decision; a dozen or so posts advocating change in moderation policy is not necessarily taken as representing a quorum of the membership on other issues, so why should it be the case here?

But that said, I would see Ralph's return as a reasonable exchange for seeing the end of the Ultramodern board and all the crap it tends to generate. I'm a pragmatist.

McKinstry Fezian27 Jan 2017 6:42 p.m. PST

THe UM board is an abject failure. Remove the board that has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be incapable of not turning political or transport it behind the Blue Fez wall o'invisibility. Science Fiction and VSF can cover any gaming needs.

And bring back Ralph. Call it an amnesty linked to disinfecting the source of the rot.

zoneofcontrol27 Jan 2017 7:03 p.m. PST

Confine or limit him if you must but I would miss his input if locked out.

Charlie 1227 Jan 2017 7:14 p.m. PST

McKinstry's got it right. The UM board has become a joke (and not a funny one) and should be unceremoniously killed off. Its become nothing more than a cesspool of bigotry and racial and religious intolerance. Would be better off without it.

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 7:57 p.m. PST

And who are some of you to call Legion's post tripe or worthless and yours aren't? Again if you don't like what you are reading stop! The hurt feelings and shock of the written word by supposedly grown men is ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the Ultra modern board or any other it's how you react to what you are reading. I really believe some of you live in bubble where you only surround yourself by people who agree and say what you feel.

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 8:02 p.m. PST

McKinstry's got it right. The UM board has become a joke (and not a funny one) and should be unceremoniously killed off. Its become nothing more than a cesspool of bigotry and racial and religious intolerance. Would be better off without it.

Again don't go to that board or read the posts it's really freaking simple.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 8:30 p.m. PST

If this is up to a vote I would say unlock his account. His postings have not harmed the hobby or TMP so let him back in. There are too many efforts already in this country to enforce "acceptable opinions". Beware the Thought Police.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 8:32 p.m. PST

don't go to that board or read the posts

I beg to differ. Your view on tolerating intolerance is simplistic.

Intolerance can make other people's who hold other views than yours life miserable and as such cause conflict, aggression and problems in society & the world at large, so is a bad thing.
One of the ways to try to have a peaceful society is for its members to be tolerant of other beliefs, views, way of life, sexuality etc. etc. as long as they are not forcing the others who think differently to conform to their ways/beliefs.

The "silent majority" must care & take exception to the aggressive militants. And there are rules against bigotry at TMP. I'm not sure we have any Moslem TMPers but if we did can you imagine their feelings at reading the Hate that some spew here?

We should all be intolerant to intolerance!

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 8:48 p.m. PST

"We should all be intolerant to intolerance!" Yeah as long as it's what you want to hear. Personally, like Legion I've had Muslims try to kill me on more than one occasion so I'm at times not inclined to care how they feel.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 9:08 p.m. PST

See, you say I don't have to read prejudiced stuff. Do you have to write it?

It's not about what I want to hear, it's about what we don't want to hear.

I'm assuming by "Moslems", you mean some sort of enemy who happened to be a Moslem? It would be very bigoted to claim because of your combat experience, every Moslem was out to get you.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jan 2017 9:28 p.m. PST

OK, I have unlocked Legion 4's account, but he is now blocked from the Ultramodern Warfare board.

Irish Marine Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 9:34 p.m. PST

Yup I do have to write because I can. And now this does not interest me any longer.

Rod I Robertson Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 9:38 p.m. PST

To All:

Given the statements made by Legion 4 and Deadles on the thread in question, there is a problem with DH'ing deadles but locking Legion 4. As ill-considered and prejudicial as Legion 4's speech was, it paled in comparison to the worst comment uttered by Deadles about Islam and the Prophet Mohammad. It seems that giving a repeat shoplifter a life sentence but letting a violent felon off with a light sentence is quite unfair. Either lock the both of them out or let them both back in with conditions after a long time out. Something on the order of thirty days.

As to the Ultramodern Warfare board, I think it has some value and is worth keeping with some changes. Discussion of religion in any way (except as it directly informs a military discussion) or the arguing of the relative worth of religions should be banned. Politicking should not be tolerated but politics as it informs a military topic should be allowed; but monitored carefully. Posters should be mindful of staying on topic and should try not to pull discussions off the primary military topic and onto to tangents which trigger reaction and hostile responses. I am most definitly guilty of this last vice so I like others must clean up my act.

When someone transgresses, then the membership should firmly call them out and try to steer the topic back on course. If a poster feels a tangent is absolutely necessary, let them start a new thread to cover that tangent.

If someone steps way out of line and makes remarks which are beyond the limits of acceptable speech (as determined by the mores of TMP) then members should post rebuttals to counter the offensive speech rather than renouncing the speaker personally. Attack the speech but not the speaker. This is more advice I need to follow myself.

Threads which get out of hand should be locked either temporarily or permanently at the Editor in Chief's discretion but perhaps the sanitation of unsavoury comments should be stopped so that such locked threads can serve as reminders and object lessons of what to avoid in the future.

Finally, perhaps there should be a limit on the number of new topics any one poster (and their sock-puppets) can start on any board in a 24 hour period. I know good old Tango 01 will find that this cramps his style but such an economy might limit UM threads to staying on the gaming and military path and allow them to less often stray down other avenues which are less closely associated with wargaming and warfare.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Tango0127 Jan 2017 9:58 p.m. PST

Thanks for the efford Bill…


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian27 Jan 2017 10:01 p.m. PST

…there is a problem with DH'ing deadles but locking Legion 4…

You fail to consider how many times each has been warned.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2017 11:18 p.m. PST

Good news, Comedy value will be maintained and Frothers will continue to have a deep vein of material to mine :)

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 2:37 a.m. PST

'You fail to consider how many times each has been warned.'

Actually, offhand I don't know how many times each has been warned…

OK, I accept that you will say 'no' to this one, but; Why not have a public warnings system on the stats board? Third warning in a certain time frame and you're out, each warning to include the reason why it was issued? Plus a list of offences that will cause an automatic warning or lock out?

willlucv28 Jan 2017 2:46 a.m. PST

Good news about Legion, he's a sterling fellow and most helpful, especially in the sphere of 6mm sci fi. I think too many people on here forget that's it about gaming.

I think the Ultramodern board ought to go, it's just people with entrenched opinions refusing to budge.

And can we knock it off with this Ramboesque 'I've served, you weren't there man' type stuff.

SJDonovan28 Jan 2017 2:50 a.m. PST

I've had Muslims try to kill me on more than one occasion so I'm at times not inclined to care how they feel.

It's a good job you weren't in the British Army. You might have had Irishmen trying to kill you and then you would have ended up hating yourself.

Martin Rapier28 Jan 2017 2:59 a.m. PST

"OK, I have unlocked Legion 4's account, but he is now blocked from the Ultramodern Warfare board."

Oh great, so that means Deleted by Moderator threads will now spill onto the other boards. At least I can turn UM off, I don't really want to have to turn off Modern and Cold War as well.

Either accept that "Current Affairs" is back under another name, or don't, and just ban all politics as LAF and TWW do.

KTravlos Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 3:19 a.m. PST

I would exchange 100 Legion 4s and Irish Marines with one Kyoteblue. TMP ultramodern reads like storm-front too often. (I have made sure not to see it, but see stuff seeps out) Too many racially and religiously prejudiced people, some of them crossing to the racist line (make our racial and religious prejudices the law) who are not deserving much respect from any person with some semblance of morality.

Kill the Ultramodern Boards Bill. It is your site, your choice, but I fear they will sink TMP. Not worth it so Legion 4s or Irish Marines can sprout their ideologies all over.

Personal logo Texas Jack Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 3:37 a.m. PST

Either kill it or move it to the Blue Fez. Without the UM board the DH would be nearly unnecessary.

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 3:49 a.m. PST

What most are saying, get rid of UM…or Blue Fez it.

KTRAVLOS and Garrison also have a point…post public warnings…and on the third one, you are gone for good. (YES, there is a lot of prejudice and borderline hate on TMP, which is why I stay away from BF & UM).

General Disaster28 Jan 2017 3:57 a.m. PST

Increase dawghouse lengths so they actually matter.
one month minimum for any offence and no early releases from public demand

Personal logo Texas Jack Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 4:58 a.m. PST

The only problem I see with the warning system is finding someone to administer it. I would much prefer if Bill works on debugging the bugs and building a more stable website.

Now if JJ volunteers… evil grin

KTravlos Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 7:26 a.m. PST

As for the whole lot crying "Our freedom of speech is being trampled". The Bill of Rights says Congress shall make no law. Your right to freedom of speech only extends towards state actors. Bill is not one, nor are the rest of us. So it does not apply.

You want people to extend you the courtesy of listening to what you have to say? Behave appropriately.

mckrok28 Jan 2017 9:15 a.m. PST

Legion 4's biggest problem is his compulsion to take the troll bait.
If he crossed a line, then punish him, but personally, I don't think his crime is so severe it deems banishment.

pjm

McKinstry Fezian28 Jan 2017 9:36 a.m. PST

Funny thing is that when I look at the posts on the UM Board, with very rare exception, none of them have anything to do with gaming. Even the pretense is fairly thoroughly abandoned.

90%+ involve posting a current event and bemoaning how awful Muslims are or a news item about a weapons system and bemoaning how horrible the Western system is or how awesome the Russian/Chinese one is but how terrible the Russians and or Chinese are interspersed with how awful everything and everybody Iranian is.

Is there still a pretense about gaming having to be involved more than the vaguely tangential "well, it could be a scenario"?

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2017 9:55 a.m. PST

If Legion 4 deserves to be released from lockout, the three casualties from the "Sad Day" thread certainly do also.

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