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"Persian Army 1807 " Topic


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1,141 hits since 25 Jan 2017
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2017 8:46 p.m. PST

Quite interesting project…

picture

picture

More here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Rhysius Cambrensis26 Jan 2017 8:16 a.m. PST

Irregular Miniatures make these in 15mm and 28mm. Why the need for conversions?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2017 9:48 a.m. PST

Because it's funny?…. (smile)

I made a LOT of convertions…


Amicalement
Armand

evilgong28 Jan 2017 11:04 p.m. PST

I'm making up zamburaks from various conversions, some from Irregular originals, in 15mm.

The first lot came out looking a bit too neat for what I wanted. I might re-paint in part.

I should post pics.

David F Brown

Guthroth29 Jan 2017 5:08 a.m. PST

Where can I find army lists/organisations for the Persians ? Assume I will be using BP rules.

evilgong29 Jan 2017 1:46 p.m. PST

Latex will keep silicone from curing, so you might have some sort of reaction happening between your mold material and the foam.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP29 Jan 2017 1:58 p.m. PST

Many thanks evilgong!


Amicalement
Armand

evilgong29 Jan 2017 2:03 p.m. PST

How strange, the bug has put my name on a post (about latex) not authored by me.

But I did try to post something else, and edit it – I'll try again.

David F Brown

evilgong29 Jan 2017 2:15 p.m. PST

I don't know BP well enough to help you with those rules, however I cooked up some ideas for Napoleon at War, which somebody may be able to translate across for you.

The structure in N@W is that you choose a division type, which you populate with particular brigades, which in turn contain a certain mix of units. The unit data is at the end.

If you need clarification feel free to ask.

David F Brown

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Qajar Persian N@W Army lists

Traditional Cavalry Division – Aggressiveness 3
Optional upgrade C-in-C to Brave as Mohammed Ali Mirza +50 points
Optional downgrade any generals any number of levels

HQ Base

Organic
Obligatory
Court Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Optional
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade

Support
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade

Reserve
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Persian Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade or Traditional Artillery Park

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Traditional Infantry Division, Aggressiveness 1
Special – ‘cavalry' Brigades of any type must not outnumber infantry Brigades, Cavalry Units must not outnumber infantry units.
Optional downgrade any generals any number of levels

HQ Base

Organic
Obligatory
Court Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Optional
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade

Support
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Traditional Artillery Park

Reserve
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Royal Court Division, Aggressiveness 1
Optional upgrade C-in-C to Brave as Mohammed Ali Mirza +50 points
Upgrade one Sub-general to Brave as an Erivan Sardar or Mohammed Ali Mirza, +50 points but not to be used with the above.
Optional downgrade any generals any number of levels

HQ base

Organic
Obligatory
Royal Court Brigade

Optional (up to two of)
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade

Support
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Traditional Artillery Park
Guard Infantry Brigade

(only from c. 1808)
Regular Infantry Brigade
Regular Artillery

Reserve
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade

(only fromr c. 1808)
Regular Infantry Brigade
Regular Artillery

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Reformed Infantry Division, Aggressiveness 2
Optional upgrade one Subgeneral as Zulfacar Khan or British Advisor as Brave +50 points
Add an Artillery General as British Advisor +100 points
Optional downgrade any generals any number of levels

HQ base

Organic
Obligatory
Regular Infantry Brigade

Optional
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade

Support
Regular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
Regular Artillery Brigade

Reserve
Regular Artillery
Regular Infantry Brigade
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
Traditional Artillery Park
Court Cavalry Brigade
Guard Infantry Brigade


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Court Cavalry Brigade
1 x sub-commander
1 x Ghulams
1 x Joushan Pushan
1 x Tribal / Irregular cavalry

Options,
add 1-3 Tribal / Irregular cavalry units
Add 1 x Joushan Pushan
Add 1 x Court Zamburaks
Upgrade up to 1/3 of cavalry units as Overstrength, downgrade up to 1/3 as Understrength

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tribal / Irregular Cavalry Brigade
1 x sub-commander
3-7 x Tribal – Irregular cavalry units

Options,
Add 0-2 Joushan Pushan
Upgrade up to 1/3 of cavalry units as Overstrength, downgrade up to 1/3 as Understrength

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Heavy Cavalry Brigade
1 x sub-commander
2-4 x Joushan Pushan

Options,
Add 0-5 Tribal – Irregular cavalry units
Upgrade up to 1/3 of cavalry units as Overstrength, downgrade up to 1/3 as Understrength

(only from c. 1808)
Swap 0-1 unit with Regular Lancers

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tribal / Irregular – Infantry Brigade
1 x sub-commander
3 x Infantry units

Options
Add 0-6 infantry units
Replace the 6th infantry unit with Bombards, Light guns, Zamburaks or Janbaz

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Regular Infantry Brigade (only from c. 1808)
1 x sub-commander
3 x Sarbaz

Options
Add 0-3 Sarbaz
Add 0-2 Tribal / Irregular Infantry
Add 0-2 Janbaz

Swap the 4th Sarbaz with Sarbaz Light Infantry
Add 0-1 Bagaderan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Regular Artillery Brigade (only from c. 1810)
If only one Horse Artillery unit is used it can become part of any other Brigade or an Independent force.
If only one Foot Artillery is used it can join a Regular Infantry Brigade or be an Independent force.

1 x sub-commander / Artillery commander ?
0-2 Horse Artillery
0-1 Foot Artillery

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Traditional Artillery Park
If only one unit is used it can become part of a Tribal / Irregular Cavalry or Tribal / Irregular Infantry Brigade

1 x sub-commander
0-1 unit of Bombards or Light guns
0-2 units of Zamburaks

Options
If only Zamburaks are used,
Add 1 Tribal / Irregular Cavalry or Tribal / Irregular Infantry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Royal Court Brigade
1 x sub-commander
1-2 Ghulam units
0-1 Ghulam – Toffangchi
1 x Keshiks
0-2 Joushan – pushan
1 x Royal Zamburaks
1-2 Janbaz
0-1 Bagaderan or Guard Sarbaz

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guard Infantry Brigade
1 x sub-commander
1 x Bagaderan
1 x Guard Sarbaz


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Independent unit
1 x Ghulam Toffanghci

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…

Persian Units and Characteristics

Items marked as [Unique unit] means there can be only one such unit per army.

Tribal troops take DTs for complex moves as Raw, regardless of their actual grade, Tribal Lancers count only one dice of 6 as a double hit in close combat. Tribal troops that have the option to Evade, Retreat or if gunners seek refuge with infantry friends must if they want to stand to receive a charge pass an ET – if they fail they must Evade, Retreat or seek shelter and pass an ET to avoid losing a base.

Tribal infantry in bad terrain, behind a stream/river or in a BUA/outskirts are not required to test to stand against a charge.

If a Force contains only Tribal troops at the point it must take a Force Morale Test instead of taking a collective test each unit dices separately to abandon the table and last of all the general himself takes the test – his failure now does not itself dispurse the force.

Tribal troops in a force mixed with others that must take a Force Morale Test obey a failed result as usual, if the test is passed each Tribal units now take their own test to avoid abandoning the Table.

Zamburaks count as Horse Artillery, Light Guns with no howitzers, all count as Fickle Fire, Zamburaks move and treat terrain as Cavalry. Can and Must attempt to Evade if charged (but don't have to dice an ET to lose bases). Zamburaks don't obey the usual rules for limbering, unlimbering, they never count as limbered but can simply move about the place and fire. Any move of more than 2 counts as ‘movement' for shooting dice penalty.

Zamburaks C/D, 2-4 bases, Tribal, Fickle Fire
Court Zamburaks C/D 2-4 bases, Tribal, Fickle Fire
Guard Zamburaks [Unique Unit] B/D 2-5 bases, Tribal, Fickle Fire, Guard

After c.1810 Court and Guard Zamburaks can drop the Tribal classification.

Ghulams, B/D, Guard, Battle Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Impetuous, Tribal

Ghulam – Toffangchi [Unique Unit] – C/D, Guard, Battle Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Tribal, Dragoons, – When dismounted, Limited Light Infantry, Jagers, 2 SKr

Dragoons, these can if not committed Dismount or Remount to change between infantry and cavalry. Such a unit can not charge in the turn it dismounts or remounts. Dismounting counts as movement in that turn for shooting dice penalty. Dismounted troops count shooting with one base fewer than on table to represent horse holders. The unit dismounts as a 6-base foot unit minus any stands lost before hand. When mounting up halve the foot bases lost (round up) to find the number of mounted bases the unit counts as lost. The unit can deploy in either form and can't mount up in any terrain impassable to cavalry.

Joushan pushan (‘armoured cavalry' or armoured Kurds, Khorassanians, Circassians etc) C/D, Battle Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Tribal, Impetuous, Lancer

Tribal / Irregular cavalry, C/D, Light Cavalry, Tribal, Impetuous, Lancer
Options, delete lances from any
Options count any units exactly as Russian Cossacks
Option downgrade any to Insecure, Option to Downgrade any to Raw
Option downgrade any to Poorly Equipped
Option upgrade up to ¼ of units in the army to Brave.

Bombard, 2-3 bases, 0-1 of these can be a Howitzer, [Unique Unit], Heavy Artillery, Fickle Fire, Tribal, Mules – representing general immovability, buffalos, massed slaves etc as transport. If a Howitzer base is used the unit can move only by prolong (representing a mix of mortars and even worse manoeuvrability)

Light guns, 2-3 bases, [Unique Unit] Fickle Fire, Tribal, Mules

Tribal-Irregular infantry C/D, 1 or 3 Skr, Tribal, optional Matchlocks
Half or more must have a downgrade to Insecure, or downgrade to Raw, or both
For Insecure troops, optional upgrade to Voltiguers (representing swarming efficient skirmishers)
Option to downgrade any to Poorly Equipped as armed with traditional weapons
Option to upgrade ¼ of the units to Jagers and Light Infantry as armed with jezzails or similar
Option to upgrade 0-1 Raw unit to Guerra y Cuchillo as Arabs
Option Upgrade 0-2 non-Arab units, of the same Brigade, to Mounted Infantry riding camels horses or mules.

Option to change all the units of one Brigade to Jihadists Volunteers – as Brave, Raw, 0 Skr, Tribal, Poorly Equipped.

Mounted Infantry move as cavalry until they charge, shoot or engage in close combat, if they become committed they lose the Mounted Infantry characteristic for the reminder of the battle. Their Charge reach is that of Infantry and count for everything else as their infantry type.

Keshiks [Unique unit] Guard, C/D, 1 Skr pre c.1808, 2 thereafter, Tribal, optional Matchlocks to c. 1820, Optionally Oversize

Janbaz C/D, 1 Skr pre c. 1808, 2 thereafter, Tribal, optional Matchlocks to c.1830
Option – give one unit attached bildars as Sappers

Matchlocks, count as Fickle Fire for shooting at ranges beyond 4

Bagaderan [Unique unit] B/D, 2 Skr, (all or none of the army's units Voltigeurs,) Guard, Fearsome (probably shouldn't count Fearsome if fighting Russians)

Sarbaz Guard [Unique unit] B/D, 2 Skr, (all or none of the army's units Voltigeurs) Guard

Sarbaz C/D, 2 Skr (all or none of the army's units Voltigeurs)
Downgrade any to Raw as Reserve Sarbaz, which can't have Voltigeurs, option to further downgrade any to also be Insecure

Sarbaz Light Infantry, C/D, 2 Skr, Limited Light Infantry (0-1 unit optional Jagars as regular Jezzailachi) Voltigeurs

Troops marked with the ‘(all or none of the army's units Voltigeurs)' represents French tactical training, which is considered insufficient to cover the Elan or Tres Manoeuvrire of French nationals, how long this lasted under British influence post 1810 is not clear.

Regular Horse artillery – exactly as British HA

Regular Foot artillery – 2-3 bases, All Medium, All Light or All Heavy per unit. Heavy guns are 12-pounders, and are a [Unique Unit], light guns can be any of the exotic Russian Deserter, amusettes, mountain guns, shumkhals, swivel guns or similar.

Regular Lancers – C/R, Light Cavalry, Lancer

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