"What vehicles/armor should I use..." Topic

…for Cold War Gone Hot games set in roughly 1980?

West Germans: Leopard 1s/M-113s, that German wheeled APCs, or would Marders have been in yet?
British: Chieftans/FV-432s?
Americans: M-60s/M113s?
Soviets: T-55s or T-62s or T-72s?/BTR60s/BMP1s?
East Germans: ???
Other NATO members: M48s, Leopard 1s, AMX-whatevers, M-113s, Centurions?

I am planning on playing 3mm 1/600, so exact marks of each vehicle will probably be less important that the overall shape of the tanks.

Thanks!

Good picks. Marders were available in the 70's. US would have M60A3 in Front line units (my unit got them in October of 1980). Otherwise M60A1 RISE/Passive.

East Germans pretty much the same as the Soviets, generally thought of as the best equipped and motivated of the WarPac forces. Bundeswehr would also have had M48s for their reserves. British would have had Scorpions & Scimitar for light support/recon, along with Landover and Wombat recoilless rifles.
Other NATO would include AMX 30s for France

By 1980 GSFG was equipped with T-64A except for 8GA and 1GTA who had T-62. (It had been reported that the replacement for T-62 was T-72 but it was proved wrong when T-64 was identified. Needless to say many documents and posters were still printed indicating that the new MBT in Germany was the T-72. During a visit to Graffenwehr in 86 many still believed that the bulk of Tanks across the IGB were T-72)

East German would be T-55

Sabre was the Sheridan still in Germany in 1980?

Tally Ho!

Most/all all 1st echelon GSFG Sovs units facing Northag (and some Sov units in Czechoslovakia) would have T64s in 1980. GSFG 1st echelon units facing Centag in 1980 still mostly T62. Those T62 units then (mostly) transitioned direct to the T80 a few years after, skipping the T64.

In 1980s T72s appearing in Sov units in Western USSR and ?Poland. Never in GSFG as far as I can tell. Lots of Sov T55s in West USSR too of course, also some still in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc. Few if any T55 serving as gun tanks in GSFG by 1980.

Bundeswehr mech inf in 1980 would be c 2/3 Marder, 1/3 M113 I think. Wheeled Fuchs APC just entering service. The old tracked HS30 APC prob just disappeared as troop carrier at this point

Nick beat me to it. Distracted by dinner! I think we're saying largely the same thing about Sov armour deployment though.

Don't forget some of the Independent Tank Regiments in GSFG in 1980 would probably had T-62 and possibly even T-55. These were stationed very close to the IGB.

Certainly T62s in some independent TRs and Bns in GSFG in 1980. AFAIK the equipment of those units tended to follow those of the larger formations with which they were associated, so therefore 62s mostly in the centre/south rather than facing NORTHAG. Couldn't say there were no T55s in independent units in GSFG in 1980- but I'd be surprised.

As noted above T64 for the better equipped Sovs.

Don't forget the Scimitars and Scorpions for British recce:)

My WW3 games are set in 1981, which avoids all those boring Chobham armour supertanks and presents NATO with some real problems.

I think 6 Independent in Berlin still had T-62 circa 85/86.

Tally Ho!

Thanks all, very helpful!

I am thinking for my first scenario of having a strung out Motor Rifle Regiment (BMP1s, T62s), reinforced by a T-64 bn. on loan from a tank division, trying to exploit a break through against a dogs breakfast of NATO stuff; Belgians (with Leo 1s, AIFVs) and Bundeswehr regional brigade (M48s and M113s).

Having checked my records, the last T-55's in the Independent Regiments were swopped over around 1978. I don't have any evidence of any remaining after that.

The USMLM reports state that in 1983, they identified that the last known T-55 ITR (in 2GTA) was now definitely T-62 equipped. Also, the ITR in Hagenow (also 2GTA) had upgraded from T-55 to T-64

My WW3 games are set in 1981, which avoids all those boring Chobham armour supertanks and presents NATO with some real problems

This is a good point. When playing Saber Squadron using T-80's and Chieftains we realized that a hit = automatic kill.

I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it's not as much fun.

Pretty well, Pud, it does make engagements brutal, but if you get smacked by 120mm APFSDS at 500 metres it will sting, a great deal! To make it more interesting one could chuck a second dice with a 10% chance that the round has been deflected by the beers in a side bin or something,

Tally Ho!

Bear in mind also that the Soviets rarely threw anything out, so once the front line units are worn down, you'll start seeing a lot of mothballed armour being pulled back out.