"Confirmed: Games Workshop PLC massive revenue increases" Topic

I too would be skeptical of GW products if my only insight about them came from trying to sell them at conventions, which must be the worst possible sales channel for that product, absent some kind of discount. I know it sells well, even at conventions, when there is a competitive (these days 20-25%) discount.

Manchu, that is one reason why I do not stock GW and Battlefront products. I also do not do cards.
It would be crazy to carry only those products to a show since they flood local stores.

they flood local stores

Which is a very good reason why they are showing a huge increase.

They have released a bunch of stand-alone games (not very good games) and they more than likely force LGS to pick up more than they actually needed.

Thus, GW gets a big cash influx and leaves it up to the LGS to sell them.

Oh and by what I can see from the two FLGS they are not really selling all that well.

One even tried to sell them at a 30% discount and they still did not sell.

Then there was the rush to pick up several of the Fantasy Flight games when the news broke about Fantasy Flight & GW going separate ways.

Oh and those games are far and away better then the games that GW put out.

Speaking as a former independent gaming store manager, I can tell you that GW doesn't force you to buy anything. If you want to keep free shipping on all of your GW orders of any size, they expect you to make an effort to bring in new releases. GW maintains a "best seller" list, and they ask that you keep those items in stock, but one can choose to ignore it as long as your weekly orders are a reasonable size.

Most likely what happened with stores with too many GW games in stock is that they were offered net terms, but only if they ordered a certain number of games. The way to avoid that is of course to not order too many games and just pay up front.

Mithmee, as usual your anecdotal evidence concerning your local gaming stores proves only their incompetence in selling product rather than any indication of GW's sales in general.

GW's stand-alone board games are actually pretty good. Gorechosen, for example, is one of the more fun games I've played in the past 12 months.

Mithmee, as usual your anecdotal evidence concerning your local gaming stores proves only their incompetence in selling product rather than any indication of GW's sales in general.

Actually both are doing quite well they just don't sell too many copies of those GW games.

Now we could go into just who is selling more games, Fantasy Flight or GW but the answer to that is too easy.

Though for thing is for certain, Fantasy Flight will continue to support their new games, while GW will put out a game for more than it is worth and than put out another high price game.

Continued support from GW is not very likely.

Does anyone expect "continued support" – which I guess means expansions – for one-off boxed games like Lost Patrol and Gorechosen? I mean, even then both of those games have neat WD articles that actually provide more rules and scenarios for using other models in those games. Then we have games like Silver Tower – two character packs, character cards, an app, and another box set coming without even mentioning WD content – and Blood Bowl – already two new pitches, two new teams, and star players cards, plus team dice, and an app … so I'd say GW "supports" games that, you know, are designed for expansions.

The comparison to FFG here is a weird red herring. FFG has never supported any game to the extent that GW has supported, say, 40k … but of course is that a meaningful comparison? Nope. We are talking about completely different business models. Maybe we can return to this comparison 30 years after Runewars comes out but until then it doesn't make a lot of sense.

One of my local stores sold more than 30 copies of Burning of Prospero, a $150 USD game in the first week of its release. They do offer a 10% discount across the board, which negates most of the 7% Allegheny County sales tax, but it is still more than $4,500 USD worth of revenue from just that GW release alone. In a week.

GW is already continuing to support the Burning of Prospero by releasing a whole different way to play it, a ton more models and on and on.

If we are going to follow Mithmee line of reasoning, if we can call it that, then GW is doing really well from the anecdotal evidence I've provided from one store.

Hell I've bought more than $200 USD on GW stuff in the last week and a half and when Inferno comes out next week or the week after I'll probably be dropping another $400 USD on Forgeworld stuff between a Leman Russ figure, his wolves, the rulebook and some Custodes tanks.

So you spend $200 USD and what did you get?

I just got this.

Oh and I spent less than $200 USD on it and it is a far better game than those Stand-Alone games.

Now as for Expansions what has GW done with Space Hulk?

Oh right they put the game back out again but expansions nope that is not the way they do business.

Because they are about the fast buck and nothing else.

I was wrong about the $200 USD, it was actually $250. USD I forgot about the Horus Heresy novels that I bought.

So I guess I got a bunch of stuff that will keep me entertained for about 70+ hours before I even play a game.

That seems like a pretty good investment on entertainment time to me. Nevermind all the games I'll play with the figures I bought.

"Now as for Expansions what has GW done with Space Hulk?

Oh right they put the game back out again but expansions nope that is not the way they do business."

You say these things like you are trying to prove you don't know what you are talking about.

link

Mithmee, let's put things into perspective.

Your active dislike for GW is clouding the fact that GW has turned their ship around and are producing games that people want to buy, and the sheer fact of the matter is that it is proven by the millions and millions of dollars of pure profit they have posted.

No amount of your GW hate and weird logical fallacies will change this.

Judge Doug, he doesn't even know what he is talking about anymore. For him GW is stuck in 1998 perpetually, or maybe 2003. He just has no clue about what is going on with GW because he doesn't follow it.

It is like he showed up at his 10 year reunion to make fun of the weird looking chick with glasses and braces and she is the hottest chick in the room when he gets there. But then he still tries to make fun of her.

I'm also not sure why FFG is being heralded as some sort of paragon of excellence. FFG is the king of dropping product lines and discontinuing games at the drop of a hat.

Conversely, GW has been doing the opposite – reprinting out of print games (Space Hulk), re-investing in dead lines (all the new support for LOTR/Hobbit SBG), and making new versions of old games (Blood Bowl)…

Never mind continuously supporting Warhammer 40K for 30 years now.

FFG is the king of dropping product lines and discontinuing games at the drop of a hat.

Really?

Do you have a list, because it is very easy to come up with a list of games that GW has killed off or stop supporting.

Oh and you can't include any of the GW IP stuff in that list because it was GW decision to stop business with Fantasy Flight.

Which sucks since I was waiting for more expansions for Warhammer Fantasy LCG, but alas, GW killed that.

You certainly can, as it was FFG's decision to not do anything with WFRP3 for years until GW pulled the license and has now offered it to another company who might actually, y'know, release products with the IP.

DUST is a huge one. AT-43 and Confrontation, out of nowhere, annihilating Rackham's main distribution channel for those games and heralding the rapid demise.
Battlelore. Battles of Westeros. Even the Star Wars RPG has seen almost no releases. What about their hugely popular games? When was the last Arkham Horror release? six years ago? FFG likes to focus on a half-dozen things at a time, and letting everything else fall by the wayside and go out of print.

Are you seriously comparing a legacy board game kickstarter purchase? What comparison is a legacy board game to anything GW does?

Using your logic, Gorechosen is a better arena combat game than Gloomhaven and therefore the $60 USD msrp is a much better deal than the $200 USD you spent on Gloomhaven. Sigh…

Let's just see how long FFG keeps Runewars in production.

Even the Star Wars RPG has seen almost no releases.

Well, that part isn't true. The FFG SWRPG is well supported with splatbooks, modules, cards, etc.

But it does have to compete with tons of other SW work flows – X-Wing, Armada, the LCG, the board games.

People complain when GW or even FW dares to spend some effort on LotR (or similarly, how upset 40k players get when GW releases AoS stuff) -- these customers would have a hard time dealing with FFG's massive cycles of support.

Why would the 40K players complain about the AoS miniatures?

With just a bit of conversion they could take them and use them for 40K.

Because when you get down to it all they are is 40K miniatures without the guns.

Why would the 40K players complain about the AoS miniatures?

Have you thought this through?

A serious 40k player invested in the lore (there are undeniably plenty of these, and you yourself must have been one too at one point) would want accurate equipment on their models, just like a historicals player would. Sigmarines just won't do. Plus they're way too big.

40k players don't seem to want AoS miniatures.

I guess people who actually buy this stuff don't see it the same way as Mithmee.

Come on,

These are screaming Bad Moons

Just need to do some minor converting and blam you got a unit of Bad Moons or if you prefers Goffs paint them black.

But I have always preferred Bad Moons, though with today's 40K there really aren't any different Ork Clans any more.

Because GW has basically drop most of the fluff from the game.

All Marines are Ultramarines

Eldar are Eldar and when the "End of Times" ends there will be only Dark Eldar.

Orks are just Orks

Squats/Dwarves killed off eons ago.

Eldar certainly aren't just Eldar anymore. Even Dark Eldar aren't just Dark Eldar anymore.

Not all marines are Ultramarines by a long shot.

You should at least make some small effort to educate yourself about this stuff. You have, as usual, no idea what you are talking about.

It's pretty clear to me mithmee. Some of these other chaps are stricken by the same lack of imagination GW has been driving in to their customer, thats all. (and they make you pay for the privilage, the scoundrels) However it is not new, eldar are elves, imperium are Empire, necrons undead, chaos chaos, dwarves squats, so on. Sooner or later they will be all the same anyway, more than likely. (or not, as then you wouldn't need 2 chaos armies?).

Eldar certainly aren't just Eldar anymore

Come on there is hardly any mention of the different craftworlds except for Biel-Tan getting crushed.

Because over the years GW has moved away from this fluff.

You should at least make some small effort to educate yourself about this stuff. You have, as usual, no idea what you are talking about.

Actually I do since I have been following what GW has been doing for the last 20 years.

Which is moving away from the fluff that they had back in the 1990's since there is no money in it for them.

Oh and yes they have pushed Ultramarines far more than any of the other main Chapters because having to create the different miniatures drive more cost to them.

They would love to kill off all those other Chapters and just have Space Marines.

They have already done this for Orks since they no longer push the different clans and all you have are just Orks.

The same goes for the Eldar Craftworlds.

So yes they are going through "The End of Times" since they want to totally change 40K and screw it over like they did with WFB.

You might like AoS but there are many of us who hate it with a passion.

But I can see GW not giving a damm for their Customers because over the last 20 years they haven't.

So they will more than likely kill off 40K and replace it with something that will look nothing like 40K.

Iyanden had it's own HC codex not that long ago, supported by three new plastic Wraith___ kits.

Come on there is hardly any mention of the different craftworlds except for Biel-Tan getting crushed.

Because over the years GW has moved away from this fluff.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that GW is blurring the craftworlds together.

On top of the GW Iyanden supplement, Forgeworld wrote a whole book on Craftworld Mymeara, and produce Eldar Corsairs.

Oh and yes they have pushed Ultramarines far more than any of the other main Chapters because having to create the different miniatures drive more cost to them.

They would love to kill off all those other Chapters and just have Space Marines.

Just because the sample minis on the boxes are painted as Ultramarines doesn't mean much. The Ultramarines haven't gotten a new model in ages, whereas GW has refreshed the Blood Angels (new Tactical squad, new Terminators), Space Wolves (plastic HQs, Wulfen, new Flyers, dreadnoughts), and Dark Angels (new Deathwing) all during 7th edition edition. Dark Vengeance still features Dark Angels.

Also don't forget the Grey Knights or Deathwatch.

Plus there is this tiny little effort from Forgeworld called the Horus Heresy which is only trying to flesh out 18 distinct legions…

I don't see GW homogenizing Space Marines any time soon.

They have already done this for Orks since they no longer push the different clans and all you have are just Orks.

I have to agree with you on the Orks – they've fallen far from the days of first edition when they were clearly the design studio's favorite army. However, the various clans are still very distinct in the fluff (Go read the Codex and the Sanctus Reach supplement), even if they aren't well represented in the minis ranges or in the army list.

See Mithmee, as usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have an ork army, and the fluff for the clans is still there. Actually there is MORE fluff for clans than there was in 2nd edition (especially given that I didn't, at that time, have easy access to the pre-2nd ed Ere We Go and other such books). If you add in the Sanctus Reach book, there is even more fluff including various inter-clan dealings and plans. Plus there have been novels about each faction, including an entire new series about an "historical" ork waaagh. In fact, just a few of the dozens upon dozens of novels would add more fluff than even existed in the "good ole days".

Also… I don't really like the term fluff. If you are using that term, then by definition you are saying that it doesn't matter anyway. So why are you complaining about it? I prefer backstory or something like that, or even "lore".

As a term, "fluff" has lost its negative connotation among many (most?) 40k fans.

Fluff seems to be a well known term. At least people know what your talking about, although I see it this way:

Back story can be summed up in a sentence or two.
(space marines are the guardians of humanity against all threats from out side or inside. Or Orks are a savage race of aliens that pery upon the weak in their endless waaaaaghhh war)

Fluff I feel is everything else. Stuff that goes beyond the above and does not help with on table play.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that GW is blurring the craftworlds together.

Gee, but the latest White Dwarf is kinda leaning that way.

link

link

What did GW do with the Elves in WFB? They got combined together.

Now it looks like GW is going to do that exact same thing with the Eldar and turn them into the "Ynnari"

So Pictor's unlike what you want to believe about me I do know what I am talking about.

GW is going to put out several books and reap a bunch of profit and like WFB kill off 40K or change it so totally that it will not look like it does now and all those books that were brought will basically become useless for the new game.

But not to worry GW will put out more books for individuals to buy.

Age of Sigmar 40K is coming and it may be sooner than you think.

Oh and as Pictor's has pointed out GW are going to bring back a few of the Primarch's are going to come back.

So they get back together and see the state of the Universe and decide to band together and combined all of their Chapters and the other Space Marine Chapters into one very big Chapter/Legion?

The writing is on the wall and if you can't see where GW is taking 40K than you really do not know GW all that well.

I'm pleasantly surprised that GW has actually been moving their until recently stagnant background fluff forward.

For various good reasons, the Warhammer world needed a shake up. Sales were down, the timeline wasn't advancing, the interest of players was lost. Age of Sigmar got me interested again, and I've enjoyed watching the new Warhammer evolve over the past almost two years. I've also enjoyed buying new armies and playing Age of Sigmar. I hadn't played Fantasy since 6th edition.

After years of playing 40k from 2nd through 4th editions, and then losing interest over 10 years ago, I hadn't given it a second thought until I read about how Cadia actually has fallen, and an entire craftworld has been destroyed. And now, a Primarch has awakened. Holy cow, looks like they let the design studio off the leash!

I am definitely paying attention to GW now, with all the shakeups of their two core products, and the renewed interest in producing independent boxed games.

I can totally understand why you might be bitter about GW invalidating your old rulebooks and miniatures Mithmee, but you have got to realize they are a company that exists solely to make money. This happens primarily by getting folks to buy new releases and books and build armies. What's new and interesting is that they are releasing pretty cool stuff that actually advances the storyline, instead of just the same old reset the timeline, rehash nonsense (remember Storm of Chaos? Remember the first time Abaddon embarked on his 13th Black Crusade? I think it was 2004). But ain't nobody busting into your house to take away your Oldhammer stuff. Just play whatever version of Warhammer you like with your pals. Or better yet Kings of War, which is just plain better than any edition of Warhammer for mass fantasy battles. Or track down some Warmaster stuff.

Actually I think the writing on the wall is that GW intends to have Cypher kill the Emperor, finally releasing his spirit into the warp to create the Star Child. This event and others will usher in a period of strife in the galaxy, finally becoming a new Age of the Emperor when he manifests fully as a new chaos god. The new edition of 40K will feature vastly streamlined rules, will use the 40K equivalent of Warscrolls, and will substantially revise the background fluff. Meanwhile, 30K will be served by it's own rule set based on a cleaned up 7th edition. Only time will tell. Regardless, this is a good thing.

GW invalidating your old rulebooks and miniatures

Actually the only Rulebooks that I still have are Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition WFB.

I sold everything else this last summer.

The miniatures I still have.

Yes they are a company and as such they need profit, which they could have gotten with ease; female Imperial Guard figures, other Imperial Guard miniatures.

But no they went with the large overprice models, cheap to make but huge profit when sold.

Oh and the most common Imperial Guard figures (Cadians) just had there planet taken over by the Chaos powers. So bang the planet that provided hundreds of Imperial Guard regiments is no longer able to provide this man power.

I believe the goal of GW is to cut down on the real number of different miniatures that they produce, because by doing this they steam line there list of products and thus lowering costs and generating more profit.

So the Imperium of Man is going to get cut to the quick and the Space Chapters are going to combined together and the Eldar are combining as well.

Of course the reality of that is that GW is doing just the opposite.

Sure they took some bad selling lines out of production but now have dedicated marauder-types for two of the chaos powers with a likely inclusion of all of them. There are now Tzaangors, which there weren't before. We have a boxed set of blue horrors including brimstone horrors.

For someone paying attention the number of new models GW is putting out these days is somewhat bewildering.

The Eldar combining has been a story line long in development.

HUBcommish is right, GW is really turning a corner as far as making the game fresh, interesting and fun to play. If they do to 40K what they did to WHFB they are going to see improved sales and new customers.

Perhaps you should take the money you made from the sale of your old rule books and buy into 8th edition when it comes out. You can fully embrace the frustrated love you feel for GW and let all of this denial-generated bitterness and anger go.

And just to make Mithmee even more wrong, GW did lower the price on their Stormcast Eternal miniatures this month.

Mithmee is correct about GW cutting down on their offered skus. He's just a little late with this observation, as they removed thousands of skus when they stopped selling individual metal miniatures and metal bits years ago and began maneuvering towards 100% plastic miniatures. As any smart manufacturer of retail product lines knows, too many skus makes it very difficult for retailers to carry a comprehensive line. Battlefront realized this recently as well, check out their newest offerings for Flames of War 4th edition and Team Yankee. The days of walls of blister packs at your LGS are on the way out (with the notable exception of Reaper Bones, which have a very high turn rate due to low price point).

Yup Centurio, good point. Stormcast Liberators and Judicators, for example, were $50 USD for a box of 5, and now they are $62 USD for a box of 10.

IMO GW is adopting the WarmaHordes model: they'll sync up the 40K and AoS product lines AND rule systems and allow cross-overs.

I'm not commenting on whether or not it's a good idea. Just an observation.

Well for a time there were I guess vague crossovers. IIRC in 2nd ed 40K, Mephiston had the stats of a Warhammer Fantasy Vampire Lord, which I suppose was poking fun at the Blood Angels' "red thirst." And of course the various Chaos daemons are in both settings.

Also, don't forget your Warhammer Fantasy Chaos warband heroes could get plasma guns and chainswords in the old Realm of Chaos books! Amazons had lasguns and whatnot too.

I'm not sure how exactly AoS fits into the 40k cosmology at this point. Mallus, the Warhammer world, was a planet in the 40K galaxy cut off by perpetual warp storms. Now… perhaps the Realms are actually bubbles of reality floating in the Warp?

^^ Many think Sigmar was actually a Primarch, but the Emperor never found him.

And one of the 40K Primarchs could turn invisible. Waiting for the day to see the faces of those who shell out big bucks for an empty box… ;-)