"10mm or 15mm?" Topic

I want to get into Napoleonics on a small scale. Which scale (10 or 15) has a wider selection?

Thanks in advance

28mm!!

There is an enormous selection of both 10mm and 15mm figures for Napoleonics.

There are many other criteria you should consider before selecting one over the other.

Not in any specific order.

Which scales does your playing group prefer.

Are you collecting one side or several.

What rules will you be using.

Can you paint well or badly.

Are you buying at a FLGS or a show or over the internet.

Are you fussy that the Kings Own Inversnecky Rifles have the correct cartridge box on the left hip or not.

SO many more.

15/18mm. For now. But consider what you're looking for in your games. Do you want games with 15-20 units per side? What size units do you want? And the others Jim cited.

For example, I can fit 30 10mm infantry one the same "footprint" as 9 15mm. This looks to me more like a batallion.

Seriously take a look at what what Mr. JimDuncanUK has to say.

To add to that. I had committed to 15mm b/f 10mm came about. The 15s is ok with my paint skill due to size, which would not go well at 25/28.
My interest is in the "masse" so many figures, paint at decent speed and have a small unit foot print with many figures.
With that, if I would have the life time left to start over I would go 10mm, which would fulfill my critera:
You can do mass.
They do not require the paint investment of the the larger figs nor the paint skill.
There is adequate availability.
I can have a small foot print for large battles on reasonable table sizes that look like they should.
and… I can still see enough detail to differentiate units w/o reliance to just the flag. ( and part of reason why I sold my 6mm collection)

This is what I am talking about: link

MG

Smaller figures usually ends with you painting more pieces. I went 15mm and have several nations armies (I use Age of Eagle, 1 figure is roughly 100 men). Good mass effect, and I can use the same terrain for WW-II as well.

Sharing terrain and such across gaming periods is a big thing to think about. I have shifted from 15mm to 28mm for many periods for this reason, and every tree, road, building, or Dwarven Forge accessory I purchase just drives me further down that road.

10mm is the way to go. (Speaking as someone who has ?10,000 15mm figures). The figures are now detailed enough as the 30 year old 15mm figures. Your wargame table becomes 33% larger, OR you can make units that are starting to look like the masses that they were. A bad thing is that as us old farts die off, you will be able to pick up 15mm armies for a song from our descendants.

Unsurprisingly, I'd push you towards 10mm…!

These are from one of our Forum members:

…with more pictures in this thread: link

If you are strapped for room, go with 10mm. If you are strapped for time, go with 10mm. If you are strapped for cash, go with 10mm.

Eyesight bad? 15mm Money is not an issue? 15mm What are the guys around you playing with?

I did my 15mm 1809 French-Austrian collection about a decade ago using Old Glory 15s as the main source of figures but supplementing those with Essex, Minifig, and Battle Honours. I think the figures look great. In the next couple years I plan to return to 1809 but this time in Spain and I will be using Blue Moon 15/18mm as my main source of figures but I will be supplementing those with other lines such as AB in order to get the greatest variety of figure options. You can see my French-Austrian collection in diorama form at link

I sell terrain pieces in a lot of different scales. I sell 20 times as many 15mm pieces as I do 10mm. If that's any indication, there are a lot more 15mm gamers out there. Something to consider.

But I'm perfectly willing to sell you 10mm terrain if that's what you decide! :)

paperterrain.com

I have 15-18mm armys, but maybe to do it again 1/72 would be the way to go. Seems lots of choice in figures and extra things like wagons

I'm a long time fan of the 10mm scale for H&M periods, and 10mm now has substantially complete lines for several Napoleonic periods. These include the most popular: 1809, Waterloo, and to a lesser extent the Peninsula. However, if you are keen on the earlier periods (say before 1809) then there is a real lack of figures in 10mm. This is slowly being rectified by a few lines, but unfortunately not by the big companies like Pendraken.

In sum – go with 10mm for the many reasons discussed above … but check to make sure the existing lines have the figures you are interested in!

These things and fashions also change over time. When I entered the hobby there was only 15mm, 25mm, or plastic 1/72, and the big push was for 25's. Then people's tastes changed and went back to 15s, and now the big scales and plastics- plastics!!! are popular again.

Think very hard about what you will enjoy more, and what your role is – do you see yourself as a host for multiple periods, or just someone who brings a French contingent to someone else's battle? If you're aiming to be self-sufficient, then go with the scale that brings you most satisfaction. If aiming to supplement other people's play, then look at what the groups you will be playing with like to field.

There will always be more openings for the common scales than for unusual ones, but you're doing this for you. How much space do you have, and how much time, and what will bring you the most enjoyment?

And – you can always do a few units in a variety of scales to see what you like most.

I'm a 10mm fan. Also, something that helps is N Scale model railroad scenery/terrain matches it.

I am for 15 but had I to start fresh, I would have gone 10mm if I was onlyplaying all by myself. I don't see many 10mm armies in the hands of my potential game groups. That said, I gave a slight preference for many 10mm figs in my 15mm armies (fantasy) for small guys like goblins and dwarves.

I think I may even have a battery or two of artillery I use with my 15mm troops that are probably 10mm used as light guns. The crew are a tad small but I get no complaints. Bought them at a swap meet. Since I use a variety of figure manufacturers, I think a lot of my old figs are pretty close to 12-13mm even If ostensibly 15mm. You can mix them as easily as 15s to 18mm can

Scott,I'm sure that's true,but keep in mind that some people use buildings that are a different scale from their figures. For instance, I bought one of your villages at Historicon for my 10's--but in 6mm,because 10mm buildings--including yours--are too large for my 3-inch batallions.

Got to get to work on those,BTW.

I've moved over to 10mm for all my new Napoleonic projects.
15mm has much more variety but 10mm offers many advantages already mentioned above.

They also look pretty good.

"Pretty" good?!

Bandolier that looks fantastic. Yes 10mm, the ranges are getting bigger all the time, yes I am biased,
link
but the reason I started doing 10mm was because it ticked all my boxes

To answer the original question:

15mm has a wider selection.

Bandolier, what size are your bases? Great painting on everything in this thread!

28mm!!

Sigh. There's always one every time this question is asked.

I went for 10mm I can get the mass effect I like and still fit an army corp on a 6'x5' table.

link

link

Thanks to War Artisan for the photographs.

Baconheimer, I started with 15mm back in the eighties, went to 6mm back in 1993 when I saw the Adler figs, then switched to 28mm, did that for a decade, then 3 years with 1/72 mix of plastic and metal, finally and permanently back to 15/18mm…
Thats a span 0f 36 years or so and I really like both the detailed and good mass look of 18mm. The 28's just looked wrong to me… beautiful figs (mostly front rank, perry, foundry) but the size… just too big… 6mm just too small… 10mm couldnt tell whether the marching infantry were coming or going just a little too small to see much detail with the naked eye… artillery lacked presence to me as well, same with 6mm guns…
1/72 is very good… but i just don't like plastic and metal is limited and expensive…
I've been round and round on this and I do prefer 15/18mm … great detail, big enough to see, nice artillery size, make nice looking mass units using 24+ figs…
Great variety in manufacturers and virtually every troop type is made…

Patrick

it also depends (I think) on how much you like painting figures.

15mm tends to have less figures in a unit than 10mm

But, from what I see there are a lot of people painting 10mm to the same standard as 15s are painted. Which implies they spend as much time on a 10mm figure as another person would spend on a 15, but as they need more figures to a unit, they spend longer painting.

My logic may be wrong of course. My wife tells me I am usually wrong….

@Mister Tibbles – Infantry are on 20mm squares, cavalry 30mm squares, guns are 30mmx25mm.

More here:
link

Some French here: link

I have hundreds of 15mm Napoleonic, a never ending project of collection the Grande Armee allies of 1812…..

But if I was to start today it would be 10mm. I love 10mm and have large League of Augsburg, Seven Year Wars and ACW armies and the collections are growing!

Why only 10 and 15mm up for consideration? Plenty of great 6mm ranges around. Really depends on what you want to do, if you want to play Napoleonic wargames than the smaller scales much better, you have the space for proper sized units, proper depth of deployment. If on the other hand you just want to play at Napoleonics than any scale will do

Leon makes a good point. I actually consider his "large" 6mm figures more of the bottom end of an actual 8-12mm sliding scale, with smaller 10mm figures in the middle (somewhat rare today) and the newer, larger 12mm figures on the top end. I know those aren't the real/scale measurements of the figures (and 6's won't mix with 10's), but it's how I think of them in practical terms. And no 10mm range is as large as his 6mm range. Now, about opponents for those 1790's French … ;)

People rightly talk about the mass look of infantry in the smaller scales, but one thing that they don't talk about is how they also make it possible to field all those additional items like limbers, which are large and expensive in 15mm. And being able to fit more figures on smaller bases means that you have more flexibility in terms of representing formations, while not losing the relative size of the tabletop, giving your games actual maneuvering room.

Cheers,

Christopher

Much will depend on what you want to fit to your available space and what you see from a typical viewing distance.

This is Waterloo in 15mm using Age of Eagles. However, I adjusted the figure scale from 1:90 to 1:60 and the ground scale from 1" to 120 yards to 1" to 80 yards. The table is 5'6" front to back and 10' wide (only partially visible.

Would it look that different in 10mm?

Hello Baconheimer!

By all means if your considering small scales take a very close look at Adler's 6mm, which are very close in size to small 10mm. The critical point here is he also has one of the widest selections in any scale. Also looking at Allan's fantastic photo above of his beautiful 15mm collection I honestly can't tell if these figures are 15mm, 10mm or Adler's 6mm. So if you can't tell the difference why not go 6mm and also take advantage of the lower figure price, faster to paint and more flexible ground scale as well.

Before making your final decision I would recommend that you order some samples from Adler and see for yourself just how amazing his figures are.

Best regards,

Glenn

Off topic, but …

@Allan – did you use layers of thick felt to represent the landscape contours? Brilliant looking table, and very clear.

Come to think of it, this is where smaller figures do come into play somewhat – differences in terrain levels can be more "subtle" and still look meaningful – increasingly true from 15mm on down, but really hard to make look good in 28mm.

@Glenn – Thanks. The figures are from my own and two other gaming colleagues.

@CATenWolde – The base layer (representing the 100m contour level) is a heavy duty grass carpet used for exhibition stands. The upper three layers (representing the 110m, 120m and 130m contour levels) are a cheaper version available here: link

To obliquely answer the OP:

Buy some samples of any options you are considering and paint them. Go with the size you enjoy painting the most. With any DIY Napoleonic project you'll be spending hundreds of hours painting them.

I am committed to 15mm, but if I was starting again I'm sure I would go for 10mm.

I do appreciate the uniform detail on 15s, and have some fun modelling the peculiarities of particular units. But I have limited playing space. Also terrain looks much better in the smaller scales – more little things is much better than fewer, well-detailed big things. I'm already using 6mm for terrain pieces.

With 10s you can either use smaller bases and a reduced distance scale, or paint more figures and have more to a base (my preference these days – but then I use quite small bases – one inch wide). What I have no experience of is painting 10s in bulk. 15s do take quite a lot of effort to look good. But painting more 10s might take even longer!

The original question regarded 10mm or 15mm, not 6mm. Besides, 10mm is the smallest scale I'm comfortable with representing infantry. While we're off-topic, I tried Russian WW2 from GHQ, and although their vehicles are excellent, the infantry were a frustrating disappointment for me – my fingers are way too fat to base those guys with any accuracy, leave alone trying it with Napoleonic formations. I found they looked like blobs unless you are a superb (or professional) painter.

10mm is a very practical scale for large horse and musket battles, easy to paint as discernable nationalities and troop types. That said, there are plenty of cheap second-hand 15mm armies out there.

I would go for 10mm here my list of Useful Wargaming Manufacturers. hope it helps.

Take care

Andy

cae5ar,
Thanks for reminding me of the original question, kind of to check that for me and as long as we stick to the scale your comfortable with that will do fine Im sure. 'Average' painters make a fine job of 6mm, maybe your technique not quite right?
L

For the sake of space and transport, I'm ditching my 25mm kit. I considered 6, 10 and 15mm as a replacement and found 10mm best all-rounder for space, price, quality and range, especially as I will end up collecting armies for the main protagonists.
However, I have painted up a small force of 15mm French because wherever you go you are likely to end up in a club that does 15mm Napoleonics!