"Supporting Membership - Price Increase? Or Membership Drive?" Topic

We've never had an increase in the price of a Supporting Membership, but looking at TMP's financials, I'm afraid the time is soon.

Alternately, if we can get a lot of new Supporting Members, there won't be a need for a price increase. So if you want to spread the word at the club or on social media about what a great place TMP is, feel free.

Now I know that some will complain about rising prices and say they won't pay them, but TMP needs a certain level of resources in order to provide the services that we do. So we hope for your support, one way or another.

I'm afraid to say that $25 USD for a year's membership is about all I'm willing to pay. Unless we get some kind of major upgrade.

Bryan

Upgrade idea-after decades of THE LOUNGE…why not visuals of what it looks like, salad bar, armory, 'Thing', a proper gamer's retreat, kegerator, evidence and body disposal services etc.

Perhaps try a referral system? For every new member a current member refers the current member receives a few bucks off their next renewal? Would bring in more members and keep costs in check while giving incentive to the current membership to help recruit.

I'm afraid to say that $25 USD USD for a year's membership is about all I'm willing to pay.

Then you better get out there and recruit some new paying members, my friend.

ok, how about this…I have been a supporting member for quite a long time…so, why not give a 30 day trial to non supporting members? After the trial, they have to pay to play…my 7 dollars every 3 months is a good investment for game and figure reviews, ect…

Add a real auction board and take a small cut of the action.

Non-wargame advertising might be worth it. I don't know what the remuneration rates are but it pays the way for other sites. Wasn't there a trial of this before?

I use nexusmods.com a lot and I don't notice the advertising. One third of the screen I am looking at now is blank. Sell the space.

Another option might be to make reading membership free but posting a subscription.

Also $4 USD a month via PayPal might be more palatable to some than $30 USD per annum. And it would make $30 USD seem like a good deal.

Then you better get out there and recruit some new paying members, my friend.

That is definitely the way to go – Alienate current paying members by being flippant/sarcastic in regards to their response '

Rather than telling current subscribers that unless THEY get more people the cost will go up try being a bit more open about why the increase is needed .
for example :(numbers made up for this example )
"we currently have 278 supporting members /subscribers of which 73 are duplicates ,and 45 are give aways (freebeies ).
We need 318 active supporting members to remain afloat , An increase of $ 3.17 will enable us to remain as we are , an increase of $4.62 USD will enable us to bring the site up to 2010 standards and an increase of $5.31 USD will enable us to bring the site up to 2017 standards . Please let me know your thoughts . I envision any changes from this taking place in the 2nd quarter of 2017.

See how much better that sounds ? It helps get your supporting member to be invested in the change -instead of a "we are going to charge you more UNLESS YOU get more members "
I would imagine that you will lose a good number of supporting members that are considering if their membership is worth it .
Studies by the Chronicle of Philanthropy(and others ) have shown just that . Un-explained or seemingly random membership cost increases have actually resulted in a decrease in membership numbers .
and yes those studies are germane to this discussion -because there is no tangible physical benefit to being a supporting member ,just like most non-profits .

I've just checked and back in August 2013 I extended my membership ahead of time when the new editors were hired – purpose, so TMP4 could be developed and brought online. Recently some work seems to be going on in some areas, but 3 and a half years later still no TMP4. Result is a currently bug ridden system that's barely fit for the purpose – I've given up trying to start new topics, plus it goes off-line at breakfast time when I most want to use TMP.

I don't know how many people have left or stopped memberships because of the issues with TMP, but the best way I know of getting me back as a paying member would be to sort the issue of TMP4 -and you'll automatically get one 'new' paying subscription.

Dear Bill

Then you better get out there and recruit some new paying members, my friend.

First: grtbrt said it best

Secondly…things have been nice and quiet here for awhile with no dust-ups due to what has often come from the Administrator(s) of this site.

Please take what grtbrt said in the spirit of what he wrote and lets continue what is otherwise a useful conversation…Please!

(MY continuing support of this site hangs in the balance…)

I'd recommend both, honestly.

$5 USD more per year?

Well that's about a penny or two or so per hour per year increase, depending on how much time you spend on TMP. I believe I can make the the jump.

I know times are tough for some and maybe there could be a kitty to help those that sincerely can't afford a small price increase.

As a resource I find TMP to be my first go-to. Is it perfect? Heck no! Is it worth it? Heck yes! (to me anyway).

Would I like to see some improvement? Of course, especially enhanced search capability and direct posting of photos.

Will I continue to support TMP? You bet!!

I totally agree with grtbrt, Garrison, Andrew, Rich and Big Red (how is that for solidarity!).

I think a membership drive is a temporary solution, and will only be putting off the inevitable raising of membership fees, but why not do both?

I would certainly pay five dollars more a year, but I would still like to live to see implementation of TMP 4.0.

Big Red: +1

Big Red: +1

Yeah, the oft mentioned and slow to arrive TMP 4.0 might be enough to motivate more folks to join up. I would be more interested if it was.

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't object to pay an extra (?) $5 USD for TMP4…

That's called 'a hint'.

JJ…you forgot

"…additional taxes and fees may apply"

AND

"Rinse the affected area thoroughly"!

Normally, I say something and that's it – I don't do U-turns or anything. On the other hand, I've stated quite a few times that, as far as I'm concerned, TMP4 is a required expectation.

Once before I paid based on that expectation.

Should I go for a U turn for once and 'pay in advance' for something that, as far as I'm concerned, I've already paid for in advance once and then felt let down…

So I've paid for a year's subscription and that's it… two chances to get it sorted, if not sorted after the year is up then that's it permanently – I think 4 and a half years is more than enough to get things sorted.

grtbrt, well said. Raising prices will not have the desired effect unless well-communicated. This opening barrage is far off target.

As noted, there is unused space that could be used for paid ads seen by unsupporting members. Raise prices $5 USDyr for supporting members to avoid the ads.

+1 to most of the above.

I'd be a supporting member if I knew what actual benefits (personal or general) I'd be paying for – encourage me to be a supporter rather than suggest the whole thing will fold if I don't pay up.

Out of interest, without giving away too much confidential information, how many paid-for supporting memberships are there, how many are needed to keep the existing site running, and how many are needed to make TMP4 a reality?

On LAF I can see how many active members, guests etc there are: I suspect TMP is larger, and covers more areas of interest to me, but it maybe doesn't sell itself so well?

That's less than 250 pesos a month. :)

Then you better get out there and recruit some new paying members, my friend.

That is definitely the way to go – Alienate current paying members by being flippant/sarcastic in regards to their response '

I was simply being logical.

Sometimes, even Mr. Spock knew when to couch his words, Bill.

Remember, you're ASKING for donations, not leading a press gang.

Sometimes, even Mr. Spock knew when to couch his words, Bill.

Remember, you're ASKING for donations, not leading a press gang.

All I am saying (sigh) is that if you don't want the price to do up, then it is in your best interests to find some new members for TMP. Sheesh…

I'd cough up the extra 5.00 USD a year but I want the bug eradicated.

Which bug? (We have several…)

At the author's request, certain posts have been removed (as well as follow-on posts by others which now make no sense).

Bill,
I beg to disagree -you were not being logical at all.
A logical response would have been to explain the reason for the increase and offer alternatives .

Remember -this site is a luxury for people ,not a necessity . So information dissemination is generally a much more efficient way to raise money than being glib. Especially as you are directing it towards the very people you are asking for money .

I'd accept the price increase based on the fact that I use the site well beyond what I am paying now. I know that's not the case for everyone, but it is for me. Of course, I'm a cheap bastard and would prefer not to pay more, but nobody asked me when gas and groceries increased, I just paid for what I wanted.

A logical response would have been to explain the reason for the increase and offer alternatives .

Excuse me, I thought I was being plain. The reason for the increase is to continue operations. The alternative is to reduce services or lay off staff.

Another way to boost membership is to offer discount vouchers for members from the TMP store (or other participating stores). There seems to be many retailers who read TMP. I reckon some would join in such a scheme.

For example, Jan 2017's coupon is for one-time use at <insert retailer's name here) for 10% off.

MRH is an onlime mag that does this.
link

I have been a paying member since 2003 but increasingly I wonder what I am getting for the extra payment (other than supporting the site – I'd rather see freeloaders benefits restricted, frankly) as against that which non paying members get. The Lounge is a hideous chat room dominated by a few people who tell us more than we need to know about their lives, so the only other extra facility I use is to list things on the auctions boards, which I have done in the past. Is just that facility worth the money? For those of us in the UK we have also been hit by a drastically weakened pound making the real cost of renewal higher this year.

TMP used to be my home page but now I probably only look at it a couple of times a month. I do still find many of the posts very useful but I can access them via Google. My membership comes up for renewal next month and I am still 50/50 as regards renewing. What do I get that those who don't pay get? That is the issue for me. It's not the cost per se, it's the comparative cost/benefit of being a paying member as opposed to a non-paying one.

Freeloaders? Really? Nice. Thanks man.

HEY…THERE is an idea, Legat<insert the rest here>.

No, not the Freeloader bit.

But, a good solid chunk of us do not use the Lounge (for most of the above stated reasons), so why not keeo the prices current for Supporting members who:

Do NOT use the Lounge and/or Blue Fez

Charge more for those who DO use the Lounge or BF.

Sounds pretty good to me, let the Soapbox crowd pay more to spout off…

Any takers?

Charge per post, some people would make you a fortune ;-)

Bill, here's an idea: you could get revenue from advertising.

I've been trying to be an advertiser (Miniature Wargames) for about three months and – even with an Editor team helping you out – you just won't answer my emails.

So I gave up…

If you want my money (or – more accurately – my publisher's money) answer the emails and PMs…

John Treadaway
Editor of Miniature Wargames and supporting member

Wait--there's a TMP store?

What HvS wrote…you could make a fortune off all of the "Poope de la bovino masculino" that gets thrown around here!

Bill,
If those are indeed the reasons for the increased cost tht is fine ,but please do a better job of letting people know .
Any organization that just says we need more money with going into details runs the risk of alienating their money base (just look at the posts above -and the PM's that I am sure you have been sent ).

A definite action to take is to enumerate the services that are provided for a supporting member vs a non-supporting member and then say which services you will be forced to get rid of and why( service W costs TMP $x per year and it has gone up to W +K).
As to staffing levels – That is something that should be in your business plan and is a private matter for you .But if you are using it as an excuse/ reason to increase membership cost, do not expect much sympathy . I have never had any organization I am part of (Board member, supporter, contributor ,etc..) tell me that unless I give more money they will be forced to lay people off.

So I (and others) ask -what services do I get that are different and which will be curtailed and why ?

Bill ,
I think that if you are open and supply information in a logical and precise manner you will generate a much more positive outcome .
Please refer back to my earlier post as to a suggestion to a manner in which this could be laid out .

Yes ,this is your business and parts of the financials should likely remain private ,BUT the people that you are asking for more money from do deserve to have a detailed response .
This is not a business that produces any physical product -like a figure manufacturer that has to deal with rising costs of casting material and postage costs .

You could also be more pro-active on sources of income you do have. How many times in the past have people complained about the delays in getting supporting membership through? A couple of days ago I stated that I had now paid for supporting membership. If memberships are a priority then it should be through now – can't say you don't know about it, you've posted 6 times on this thread since my post. Add that to John's post about trying to advertise…

I have been a member from the beginning and an advertiser since I started Brigade Games.

I understand from Bill's perspective that he went the route of hiring additional editors to assist so he could code TMP4.

As others have said, a few years into the addition of Editor's and there is no timeline on when that is to be finished, the feature set, etc.

I do not say anything here disparaging anyone so do not take it this way.

While I wouldn't expect Bill not to take part in the normal editor duties as coding all the time every working day does require breaks for sanity reasons (I do code so I understand this as well), it doesn't appear much progress is made or at least the progress isn't communicated well to the membership.

Secondly, just from things I notice it appears Bill does still do a lot of editing. I am stumped on this point as to why as there are multiple assistant editors and not just one.

As grtbrt has said, Bill, please make the case.
How many memberships were there in 2014, 2015 and 2016 and how did that change? Has there been a decrease? Has there been an increase in editor costs and maybe that needs to be adjusted?
I see there are still memberships given away for free. This affects the budget and if that needs to be curtailed then that would be wise.
What are the hit metrics the last few years and how is that changing?
Have hosting fees gone up?
Has there been a drop in paying advertisers and total fees?

On a personal opinion note, there were too many controversial issues that drove some members away in the last few years. All were potentially avoidable or at least should not have been escalated. It is difficult to do, but these type of issues need to be avoided at all costs as all they do is distract from the business of TMP.

BrigadeGames et al,

I can see Bill fidgetting, but I have to give him credit, he hasn't gone down the road where he becomes defensive and thinks we're all against him.

I LIKE this place, hence me being a supporter, but I'm glad that a number of people are advising Bill of the existing problems and how to both correct them and generate some new revenue.

Nothing wrong with ripping off the scabs as long as we all end up happy and have a happy and (financially) healthy TMP to boot!

What Andrew just said, and then some.

John T

…just from things I notice it appears Bill does still do a lot of editing.

Are you referring to Hobby News?

I get a credit ("scheduled by"?) on stories because I'm the one who gives them a quick final check before they are published.

Editor Dianna does the text-editing; Editor Hebber does text-editing on the late shift; Editor Julia fills in if needed; I fill in if needed (i.e., editor can't get online due to Philippines connections, sick, vacation).

Editor Hebber does the graphics editing; I fill in as needed. (The other editors do not have the training or software to assist with graphics.) One interesting internet wrinkle is that sometimes Hebber cannot access certain photos that the advertisers send us links to, so I do those articles.

I also cover Hobby News as needed when the editors are not working (i.e., sleeping!).

As you can see, the editors take a great deal of work off my shoulders when it comes to Hobby News, but I still have some involvement.

I understand from Bill's perspective that he went the route of hiring additional editors to assist so he could code TMP4.

While that was the most important element, there was much more to it. TMP was simply too much for one person to operate! Requests would backup for weeks, Hobby News had a long waiting list, the forums were barely moderated, the Manufacturers Directory was seldom updated and the (old) Rules Directory was shut down – do you remember?

Today, if an advertiser needs something done, they know to go to Editor Gwen, and she makes it happen. Bingo Bongo.

Today, Hobby News stories are published "on time" in most circumstances, thanks to Editors Dianna and Hebber.

Today, the Manufacturers Directory is updated constantly, and the Rules Directory is open once again – thanks to Editor Julia.

Yes, their contribution lightens my workload (although I now have to spend time managing!). I have several "spare" (LOL) hours a day to handle things only I can do – including development on TMP 4.0, repairs and maintenance on current TMP, maintaining industry relationships, and looking at ways to increase revenue.

I was a supporting member for years. Even paid for a 5 year membership if I remember correctly. I even gifted memberships to others who had fallen on hard times. It certainly is not the cost. I have not supported for the last year. The reasons are the inconsistent moderating and the banning of members for minor offenses or no offense at all except disagreeing with the wrong people. Looking back on old threads, there are far too many names with the ZZZZZZZ symbol after the name. TMP used to be my go to gaming page. After the start of the Frothers thread (which I am a member of, along with LAF and TWW), I spend more time at other sites than here. I used to check TMP multiple times a day, now I give it a quick check in the morning and maybe at night. The current levels of drama are too much for me. I am interested in the gaming, not the personal lives of members, and certainly not the politics. I am a member of the Blue Fez. That is where politics belong. I very much would like to see TMP succeed. It was my first gaming site, and for years my home. Sadly, this is no longer the case. If things change and go back to the civil, fun site it used to be, I would happily sign on as a supporting member again.

As someone who has been on the verge of becoming a supporting member several times, I have held back for the following reasons:

1) I use this site on mobile devices primarily, and I find that the comment addition is all but unusable most of the time (sometimes the text box overlaps the submit button, formatting of the page is not exactly mobile friendly)

2) Most times I start a thread, it gets some kind of error message

3) I have to scroll through pages of news, rules and large pictures before I get to the 'message board' from the front page

4) The 'rules' board was added recently on top of the 'message' boards, and I really have no idea what it's for other than discussing rules systems that I don't play that require me to scroll through them all the time

5) There seems to be so many different options and sub boards that it's hard to parse information in larger amounts (28mm scifi, 15mm scifi, warhammer 40k, and more all for science fiction gaming)

6) Related to 5, but cross posting seems to be counter intuitive or doesn't work at times

7) It seems this board's audience that are active love to go to other games they don't like and endlessly post about how we're all doing it wrong and should stop playing 40K, Flames of War or 15mm and everyone who does is a sub-par wargamer