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"What would you change about TSATF rules ?" Topic

19 Posts

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825 hits since 28 Dec 2016
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Comments or corrections?

coolyork Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2016 9:51 p.m. PST

This may be sacrilegious to some ,however I know Larry Brom encouraged folks to make changes or add rules as they saw fit . What if anything have you changed or plan to change ?

John Leahy28 Dec 2016 10:09 p.m. PST

I would change the melee rules. I know the rules were not designed for large games. But the melee rules can bring a large game to almost a stop.


Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut28 Dec 2016 10:20 p.m. PST

The price. I am poor.

mghFond28 Dec 2016 10:31 p.m. PST

Honestly, I was never a big fan of the rules set. So I'd probably change a lot. But then I am aware it has been wildly popular for a long time.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Dec 2016 11:01 p.m. PST

I'm with John Leahy. The melee rules are a quick and easy fix and streamline the game so that it can be played with massed armies in a relatively short span of time.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2016 11:12 p.m. PST

I would change nothing, particularly the melee rules. They're the highlight of every game we play.
If they bother you that much because you insist on using too many figures and units, play 800 Fighting Englishmen instead.

Jeez Louise. Is there some law that we have this topic every 3 months?
Where's the thread on changing Black Powder, or, God forgive me, DBA?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2016 11:26 p.m. PST

Having said that, this weekend I'm going to take a look at the melee rules as they will be used in my AWI variant, Flames of Liberty.
Naturally, bayonet armed figures will get a +1 against non bayonet armed infantry figures, if they stand.
I'm also giving foot figures armed with swords (limited to jaegers or dismounted cavalry) the "win ties" modifier against infantry.

In the '45 module, The Sword and the Haggis, Government troops early on will not get a bonus for defending in line against the Highland charge. This should "simulate" Prestonpans fairly well. Then at Culloden with new bayonet drill, British infantry will get the usual bonus.

Nick B29 Dec 2016 4:19 a.m. PST

Definitely change the melee rules – far too slow and clunky.

Guess I must be one of those people who "insists" on using too many figures in contravention of official dogma……

and there was me thinking that some one else other than WS had written the rules!

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2016 5:17 a.m. PST

If folks find melees slowdown the game, then simply
resort to rolling 5 dice at a time, different colors,
and match them up.

If dice are tied (both green roll '1', as an example)
then apply the results to BOTH sides (each figure
would 'die' in the example used).

We've done it this way for years…

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2016 5:20 a.m. PST

If no player controls more than two or three units, you "care" more about each unit. This makes the melee phase more personal.
TSATF is very much a Hollywood production than it is a "one die roll and it's over" wargame.
When the Zulus made it over the wall in "Zulu", did the movie cut to the one die roll?
How about in any Alamo or Little Big Horn movie?

It's a movie you're playing, and Lt Ian Hamilton of the Gordon's can win the Victoria Cross against Wily John Pathan. Mine almost did. Missed it by one, but he was mentioned in dispatches.
Why do you think there's a Victoria Cross rule in TSATF?
I think you're missing the point of TSATF if you want to play Omdurman.
Do you play Waterloo with Sharpe Practice?

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP29 Dec 2016 5:44 a.m. PST

The movement rules possibly that basically ignores terrain restrictions for natives.

During one game I had a wagon being pulled by four horses galloping at full speed down a road, and was being pursued by natives on foot running cross country, and I couldn't outrun them.

There's a bit of a problem with that right there I think…

Jeigheff Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2016 8:41 a.m. PST

My group probably isn't playing TSATF as it was meant to be played because we've used it for some pretty big multi-player battles. Our games sometimes move slowly, especially when melees are fought, as others have mentioned. Most of the folks who participate in our local TSATF games have a good time as far as I can tell and might not have any complaints.

Having said that, streamlined firing and melee procedures would probably help our games go faster.

Murvihill29 Dec 2016 10:27 a.m. PST

I grew up playing Column, Line and Square, and the melee rules there make TSATF look fast. I still remember one battle where two heavy cavalry units went at it hammer and tongs, die roll after die roll with no effect, until one unit failed its morale. No sooner had someone said "thank God that's over" then the player who failed the roll said "Now the back squadron checks" and on it went.

PSADennis Inactive Member29 Dec 2016 1:21 p.m. PST

I would change the distribution system. Because my LGS is not able to sell the rules TSATF is not promoted. Hence they do not get any play around my area. I played them many years ago and wish that this issue would change.
My rant for 2016

Hafen von Schlockenberg Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member29 Dec 2016 6:16 p.m. PST

Correct errors in and expand the uniform guide.

Mad Guru Supporting Member of TMP30 Dec 2016 3:58 a.m. PST

I would add an index.

abelp0130 Dec 2016 9:15 p.m. PST

Fix the text per the errata and add an index. Otherwise, I like the rules.

Chuckaroobob30 Dec 2016 11:30 p.m. PST

Melee rules. Takes way too long and results can be epically bizarre. Which is what Larry wanted!

SgtGuinness31 Dec 2016 8:51 p.m. PST

I love the rules as is! The only thing I'd change is to reprint the rules with all the errata and official rules changes included in the main body. The melee rules make the system great. The variable movement rules rock and make things exciting. But each to his own. As Larry always said, play the rules the way you want, change them however you want. But most of all have fun!


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