"Fourth edition announced" Topic

flamesofwar.com

Looks like it's finally here! Interesting bit is that the EW and LW books are FREE for 3e owners. Judging by the articles, it sounds heavily based upon Team Yankee: Dash moves, specific die-rolls, and so on.

They say the rules will be 1/3 their previous length.

Excited?

$$$

I don't know about 'excited', but if the introduction of cards is going to mean we don't have to remember special rules (as the impact of the special rule is simply displayed in the readout), then I'm interested at the very least…

I'm starting to get tired of new editions….

With no stores within 300 kilometres still stocking FOW getting the free books is going to be problematic.
Alan in Canberra

Is something wrong with the 2nd Ed.? I don't know as I don't play it but I have been thinking about it ..

I'm the only one in my group who doesn't do tournaments, but about 5 others do. I'll go with whatever they decide.
But I am also firmly in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" camp.

I kind of resent all the books I've already bought suddenly needing to be cross indexed with "free" supplements that I must consult.

Btw, are EVERY unit going to be provided "free" cards to play with?
Oh, for instance 76mm Jumbos? "Super Pershings"? I can think of many more.

I'm starting out 95% prejudiced against, and I haven't seen it yet.
I'm thinking that FoW has an older grumpier clientele than 40K, and are less likely to fall for these antics.

But I am also firmly in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" camp.

Let's hope they fix it. All the special rules make it way too complicated.

What is the page count for 3rd Ed? I might as well read War and Peace.

I think I only played 3rd edition twice. Doubt I'll bother to get 4th. 2nd edition as good.

All this negativity, yet no one bothers to even mention the differences between the current and newly announced editions and the merits (or lack thereof)?of those changes. Typical whining, know-it-all wargamers..

In case anyone's interested in substance, the new edition adopts many of the conventions of Team Yankee. It's simpler and more stuff will die more quickly.

This prompted me say, "What? 4th edition already?" But after looking into it, when 4e comes out next year, FoW will have been around for 15 YEARS! Doesn't seem that long. Wow.

1e 2002
2e 2006
3e 2012
4e 2017

In case anyone's interested in substance, the new edition adopts many of the conventions of Team Yankee. It's simpler and more stuff will die more quickly.

Thank you for listing some of the reasons I will have no interest in getting it.

Puddinhead, if I wanted to play Team Yankee, I would be playing Team Yankee.

GW turned me off chasing the latest edition. I started with 3rd edition & will remain with 3rd edition.

Puddinhead, if I wanted to play Team Yankee, I would be playing Team Yankee.

I'm not trying to convince you or anybody else to play FOW 4.

Once you start seeing numbers next to the title, you know you haven't bought the rules, and can't. The choice is whether to continue renting them.
Let us stipulate that the rules are an improvement, though this is not always the case. Let us assume they haven't messed with basing or TO&E. Suppose I want to do a nice, straightforward Americans vs French engagement following the Torch landings. Now I need
--Rules
--The North Africa theater(?) book.
--The early war guide for French armies
--The guide to the US Army

Would any of the regulars care to tell me which edition each of these is now in? My guess is that you are now trying to make books from at least three different editions work together.

Which is why, as with GW, I may buy the miniatures and I may use the basing, but I am NOT going to go chasing after their latest edition like a five year old playing soccer. I can write a set of rules faster than I could untangle that mess.

Ah. Schogun. It's a tournament thing, I think. GW, the DB series and--mind's gumming up--whatever Barker did before DBA for Ancients all seem to require a new edition at about that interval. In five years, the tournament regulars will all know all the cheap unhistorical tricks. It's the multi-volume rules which make the whole thing so objectionable to me.

ASL has been out for 30 years and has 2 editions and all the "old" stuff is just as usable today as it was in 85. So having "only" four editions in 15 years is nothing to be excited about.

Actually Team Yankee in my opinion is a better game than the current Flames of War. But as someone stated will there be "free" cards for all those Battlefront miniatures I/we have purchased?

Regardless, you can still play the game you have. The folks who will be impacted the most are the tournament players who must have all the latest and greatest and enjoy taking the time to learn all the various rules and sub rules.

Frankly for me there are better WW II rule systems available but due to marketing it is hard to find players other than say Flames of War, or 40K, or Warmachine, etc., etc., etc. I am sure there is going to be a lot of gnashing of teeth and rending of sack cloth related to his news. I offer that instead, that you each take a moment to breath deep, consider you good fortune that you have toys to play with and perhaps inquire among your gaming group how they would like to proceed.

I think this is my stop, excuse me while I exit the tube.

Excellent analogy with ASL… but what about the folks who thought Squad Leader was plenty good and abandoned the game when it got more complex under ASL?

Is this the edition with the Chaos Germans?

Ha ha, The last game of FoW I had was about a year ago and we were still using 1st Ed. I am about to embark on painting a friend's Germans for him as a side project this year.

The mess that SL became with all the expansion's is the reason ASL exists.

I think that the Defensive Fire rules are better in 3 than in 2. (I consider that Defensive Fire also covers Overwatch fire, so expanded Defensive Fire ranges better models Overwatch)

Organizationally, 2e was a huge improvement over 1e, with the bigger books for a campaign or theater.

But I'm still not entirely sold on 4e.

The rules are FREE. The army lists for early and late war are FREE. If you are happy with the current or earlier rules, by all means, keep on using them.
I personally liked the way Team Yankee works, and would like to see that on FoW.

can't stand TY, V4 has incorporated many of the TY features.

BF have also handles the role out of information really badly and have totally ignored the plays and play testers and have done what they have for purely commercial reason.

Frankly I am old and grumpy and unless they turn out to be an improvement they will not be getting any of my money.

can't stand TY, V4 has incorporated many of the TY features.

BF have also handles the role out of information really badly and have totally ignored the players and play testers and have done what they have for purely commercial reasons.

Frankly I am old and grumpy and unless they turn out to be an improvement they will not be getting any of my money.

I'll bet the rules and lists won't really be free. You'll have to turn in the previous edition books to get them, like when 2nd became 3rd. Then you'll be stuck without your 3rd ed books.

Excellent analogy with ASL… but what about the folks who thought Squad Leader was plenty good and abandoned the game when it got more complex under ASL?

I didn't abandon the game, I just refused to spend even more money on revised counters and rules. The 2nd revision SL rules played just fine…it was the rule book that was a mess trying to find things coupled with FAQ's. (I spent a week typing all the rules and FAQ changes into one document on the word processor (I had a lot more time then-LOL).
Now there is a complete SL rules version on line that I can refer too.)
SO if FOW 4th makes a rule easier to find, simplifies procedures or eliminates areas that don't work well, you may feel it is worth buying. If not, nothing says you can't continue using the version you already have. (IMO)

The army lists for early and late war are FREE

No they aren't , there is meant to be something in 1 of the V4 books , that gives all the new V4 rules for each army list book ! For now nothing is changing with EW and LW lists , only MW lists are getting a V4 make over !

It sounds like you have to put a sticker on your 3e book to claim free books.

Winston please stop spouting out on things that just are not true. 3rd Edition was free. A sticker was placed in the v2 rules as my happy LGS owner while handing out free copies of V3.
Plus no one cares your not buying it Move on……
Dennis

I'll bet the rules and lists won't really be free. You'll have to turn in the previous edition books to get them, like when 2nd became 3rd. Then you'll be stuck without your 3rd ed books.

BULL !!!

When v2 was released, I got a sticker to put on the cover of my v1 rulebook and a free v2 mini-rulebook. I KEPT MY V1 RULEBOOK

When v3 was released, I got a sticker to put on the cover of my v2 rulebook and a free v3 mini-rulebook. I KEPT MY V2 RULEBOOK (I'd bought a full-size v2 rulebook at some point in time)

If your game store kept your previous-edition books, the owner stole them from you, and needs to be reported to BF and the police.

So I misremembered.
Jeez Louise. Take a chill pill.

Life is a funny old thing. Which means I am old :)

But I do remember when people LOOKED FORWARD to new editions of rules (especially the WRG Ancients crowd, well, right up until 7th ed came out and was firmly rejected…)

So it's interesting to see that now new editions are seen as nothing more than a money grab from unscrupulous capitalists. Or something like that.

As so many people have said, if FoW isn't to your taste, that is fine. If one of the previous editions IS to your taste, then like so many people who stuck with WRG Ancients 6th edition, stay with what you like!

For myself, this is a golden time, and I am happy to play half a dozen different rules sets / editions for any given era as long as I am having a good time with friends.

Im looking forward to it. Changes sound interesting to me. If you don't want to play it thats cool too…

but Langobard back then it was one and done. I bought the new edition rules, all in one book, and that was it. no need for separate army codexes,and theater books and all the rest. One book, and the rest can go for minis or terrain.

If this is just one book and that is all I will need to play what I want, then great probably pick it up. but if not, nope.

I NEVER looked forward to new editions of WRG Ancients.
I played in several tournaments per year back in the previous century, and we had the traditional Thursday Night rules seminar to go over the latest amendments. More than once, these were decided and changed by "Letters from Phil". And these were decided by the time stamp on the letter.

Am I exaggerating? Not by much.

There is much to be said for stability in a system that ain't broke.

There is much to be said for stability in a system that ain't broke.

This is true.

The advantage of v4 is that we had Team Yankee to work out some of the bugs. Not sure we had enough time to work out all the bugs, though.

Knickers have been twisted…

My memory is, of course, fallible :)

That is just how I remember it!

What does concern me when a new rules edition comes out, is whether it will actually STOP people playing.

WRG 7th Ed Ancients is a case in point, around my neck of the woods (and from all I hear, other areas as well) WRG was THE game, but 7th Edition was precisely the wrong set of rules for the time and a lot of people pretty much put their ancients away for a decade.

For me, Age of Sigmar had a similar effect. I have no interest in rebasing my Warhammer armies or calling my Wood Elves whatever it is I'm supposed to call them. The good thing about the current time, is that I can pretty seemlessly move from AoS to Kings of War, so I don't care.

If the new edition of FoW is so hideous that I don't want to play it, I'll just go across to PSC's Battlegroup rules or something I enjoy.

And THAT is the great thing about now: there is almost certainly a set of rules for you out there somewhere!

Heck, we even have places like TMP to come and ask about rules recommendations!

Great time altogether for wargamers :)

I'm hoping that if FoW4 sucks enough, I can get the guys to try Battlegroup [whatever, I have BGNormandy].