"Modern Naval Rules Recommendations" Topic

I'm looking for a modern naval rule set that has a good feel to it, but isn't overly complicated. I've been reading through the Harpoon 3 book and I think that might be too complicated to bring to my game group. I've looked at the database here, but I can't seem to find many AARs or reviews of the rules so I was hoping that someone could share their experience with the various rule options available.

I personally like 'Shipwreck' – much simpler than Harpoon, but has a good tactical feel. One point to note is that the author is supposedly updating the rules. They would be reasonably current for the Cold War, up to say mid 90s, but need updating for today.

The only problem with Shipwreck is they are more of a "guideline" set of rules, you need to fill in some of the structure of the rules on your own. (I am very hopeful for a second version update.)

Surface Battle Group and a number of supplements are available from Wargame Vault, they look pretty good and aren't Harpoon-like in their complexity. They are also fairly up to date too.

The author was on TMP for a while, not sure if he still is or what support is like.

Can someone tell me their experience with Surface Action Group? I have shipwreck and they are great for their timeframe but more recent hypothetical scenarios need updated rules.

I would say that it sort of depends on what you want to do with the rules.

If you want the full spectrum of surface, air, and subs, then Harpoon 3 is a decent set of rules (and Harpoon 4 is good too). The key with Harpoon rules is to create a scenario that doesn't overwhelm the players (giving one guy an American carrier group with a full air wing and escorting subs is one way to do that). That said, Harpoon generally works best if someone knows the rules acts as a GM.

If you want just surface and air, then Shipwreck works pretty well. But it has its own issues with how escorting ships defend other ships and the sub rules are not very good (that is my own opinion, so you can take that for what it is worth).

If you want to do smaller scale missile boats (and up to frigate sized ships) and helicopters, then Bulldogs Away is a good quick play set of rules.

I have not tried Surface Battle Group and don't know much about it.

Rory Crabb recently released a set of rules called Naval Command that got some good comments. I only looked at his preliminary version and thought it was a little too generic and that submarines were underestimated. I'm not sure what changes were made for the final version.

Good luck with your search.

@Generalstoner49 – I think a search through the TMP archives should turn up at least some discussion about SBG, if not an actual review.

From one who has played and owns Surface Battle Group I can highly recommend it. The rules are easy enough to allow players to command task groups or task forces, but meaty enough for good depth and interest in both ship handling and combat.I liken them to General Quarters 3 for modern naval warfare.

Can anyone comment some more on Bulldogs Away? It certainly looks interesting, but it seems hard to find some good AAR or rules reviews on it.

Regarding Bulldogs Away! as I mentioned above it is really for missile and gun boat combat. You can have up to frigate size ships, but that is probably the upper limit.

The rules allow for hidden movement using blips, but they usually don't last that long.
Combat uses a d20 with modifiers to check for hits from guns and missile. There are rules for different type of missile guidance and ECM.
Damage checks use a d10 modified by the size of the weapon and the size of the ship. The damage check can result in different levels of damage that have chances of knocking out weapons, sensors, and propulsion.

I haven't posted an actual review of the rules, but you can see some of the games I played and ships I prepared on my blog.
link

Shipwreck's submarine system work for the classic tabletop situation where one player commands a task force but has a sub in support. It prevents coordination getting too good.

It does not work for the player commanding a sub situation, which is where Harpoon works very well.

So I'd say horses for courses.

Cheers
David

Bulldogs is great fun!

Recommended.

Here's a battle report for Danes vs. Swedes – no pics, but a writeup of the skirmish:

TMP link

Bulldogs is very tempting. What about sources for scenarios, are there any good ones out there? Or is this a game that would be just as good lining some boats up on either side of a table, putting some islands and neutral shipping in the middle and declaring a limited-visibility weather environment?

I've become very fond of Naval Command. While relatively new, its combat procedures are excellent as is the command structure.