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"Introduction of BMP-2s to 8GA & effects of EMP " Topic

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E Muilwijk10 Dec 2016 4:05 a.m. PST

If you look at the picture in the link, do you think the ammunition box for the Hotchkiss MG is a green colour or perhaps a dark grey?


Fallout207710 Dec 2016 4:44 a.m. PST

Hello all, a few questions.

First, was the BMP-2 ever used in a recon roll, was there a recon variant? I know for the BMP-1 they had the recon variant the BRM-1, was there a BRM-2?

Second, Do you know what year the 8th Guards Army started to receive the BMP-2? I know they started getting T-80Bs in early 1983 so I assume the BMP-2 was also introduced into the 8GA around that time but i'm not sure. I know the BMP-2 was introduced in 1980 and first deployed to Afghanistan in 1982, I assume the GSFG would have gotten them pretty quick after that, but exactly when?

Lastly, I know this is a bit off topic but its something I have wondered about a lot. What would be the effects of an EMP on Soviet and US equipment in the aftermath of a nuclear explosion? For more details, I have been looking around everywhere for info on what had EMP shielding, on what would be utterly useless and ect, but have found little.

In an article I read from June 30th 1983, it said the following about the Soviet MiG-25 Foxbat:

"Most of the electronics comprises old fashioned valves and vacuum tubes rather than the semiconductors favored in the West. The hardware is clumsy and crude and requires extensive shielding to eliminate interference from adjacent circuits. Nonetheless, this has made the Foxbat a "hardened" aircraft with its avionics and fire control capable of surviving the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) of a nuclear detonation. NATO air forces have started to harden their own aircraft following the disclosure that the Soviets are developing a EMP weapon that could feature in any future European conflict."

So this says that the MiG-25 is safe from the effects of an EMP, so I assume this also applies to the MiG-23, Mig-27, and any older Soviet aircraft yes? I do think the more modern Soviet aircraft such as the MiG-29 and Su-27 would be as safe though. It also seems to suggest NATO aircraft would not be protected as of the time(1983). What about the A-10 or F-111 or ect.?

Then somewhere else I read said the Soviet MI-24 Hind was also save from an EMP, that it could still function, would the US cobra also be ok or would it be effected?

And on the focus of ground vehicles, what about the M60A3, and early M1 Abrams, I read that the computer systems would no longer work but that the engine would still function, again i'm unsure how accurate this info is. Then on the Soviet side, would the T-80B or BMP-2 have any problems?

Really what I want to know is, what was shielded, what was be lightly effected(still functional even if less effective) and what would be totally useless. What aircraft would be able to still fly and continue operations, which ones would suffer trouble but be able to land, and which ones would just fall from the sky and crash into the ground.

It seems there is very little info out there on the matter, and when I try looking up details about EMPs and such all I find is peppers and modern things, for this I am interested in the early 80s time period. Apologies if it's too off topic.


nickinsomerset10 Dec 2016 5:08 a.m. PST

A Recce Coy where one would find a mix of turrets, so included both BMP-1 and BMP-2. The BRM was the Command vehicle, BRM-1 was an upgrade with the radar mounted in the turret.

EMP was a potential nightmare, mainly against Comms, however as a by product of nuclear weapons life would have already been slightly difficult!

Tally Ho!

nickinsomerset10 Dec 2016 5:17 a.m. PST

Top to bottom, left to right:

BMP-1, BMP-1
BMP-1, BMP-2
BMP-2, BRM-1


Tally Ho!

Fallout207710 Dec 2016 5:20 a.m. PST

BRM stands for boevaya razvedyvatel'naya mashina Combat reconnaissance vehicle. I was under the impression that the BMP-1K was the Command vehicle, K stands for komandirskaya command.

So the BMP-2 was used as a Recon vehicle though, yes? Do you know what year BMP-2s were first introduced into the GSFG and what units got them first and what year?

Thank you for your response.

Fallout207710 Dec 2016 5:21 a.m. PST

Oops, after I posted I saw your second post, interesting photo, thank you for posting it, do you have a date? So from what you are saying, recon units would be a mix of BMP-1 and 2s?

nickinsomerset10 Dec 2016 5:56 a.m. PST

Yes, together with motor bikes, BRDM-2 and even Main Battle Tanks. BMP-2 was in GSFG by the early 80s,

Track bashing outside the Recce Coy shed:


Tally Ho!

Antioch10 Dec 2016 12:18 p.m. PST


Really appreciate the comments & the pictures from someone who was there.


Mako1110 Dec 2016 4:20 p.m. PST

I've read when they were first rolled out, priority was to give them to their recce units.

Don't know if that is true, but it's what I've read. Makes sense.

On EMPs on vehicles, some think they'd be knocked out. Others seem to think the armored vehicles at least, are Faraday Cages, so might not be affected. In any case, treat the same for both sides, at least for ground vehicles.

I know in the 1980s, a lot of equipment for the US military was being tested/shielded from EMP, though again, neither I nor the experts know how well, until the balloon really goes up, but suspect most aircraft would probably be reasonably immune from it (Faraday again).

emckinney10 Dec 2016 10:09 p.m. PST

Aluminum is non-ferrous. I don't think that you can make a Faraday cage out of it.

GarrisonMiniatures11 Dec 2016 3:31 a.m. PST

Aluminium is a metal – it's the ability of metals to allow free flow of electrons that counts.

seneffe11 Dec 2016 12:59 p.m. PST

On BMPs- one question I have found interesting about the deployment of BMP 1s and BMP2s in GSFG. The Conventional Forces Europe (CFE) treaty inspections of GSFG units in 1990-91 show most BMP MRRs with a mix of BMP1 and 2. The mix of the two types is often approx 50/50.
A 50/50 mix of course does not correspond to the triangular organisation of Regiment, Battalion, Company or Platoon, so I'm at a loss to know how they were distributed within sub-units, or why they were parcelled out like this, rather than filling up one regiment at a time with new vehicles while the rest waited their turn.

nickinsomerset11 Dec 2016 1:21 p.m. PST

Not sure about the late 80s in GSFG, but mid 80s usually 1 Bn BMP-2, 2 Bn BMP-1. Also a Coy of BMP-2 in the AD Bn,

Tally Ho!

Fallout207711 Dec 2016 1:27 p.m. PST

Do you think there would be any BMP-2s in the 8GA in late 1983? I know probably not many but would there be any at all?

nickinsomerset11 Dec 2016 2:08 p.m. PST

Quite probably they were initially introduced about 79-80, but my AOR was 3SA. One of the perceived "major" threats were the new generation US attack helicopters, against which the 30mm was potentially effective,

Tally Ho!

Formerly 298TYR11 Dec 2016 4:09 p.m. PST

You really do have some fantastic shots Nick – where was this taken – Bernau or the Elstal – Olympischedorf area ?

Lion in the Stars11 Dec 2016 4:28 p.m. PST

EMP is potentially nasty. Early AH1s and A10s would probably be fine, as would F15s, if possibly without comms. F16s, with their totally unstable design and digital flight controls, would be in trouble but their engines would be functional. Later planes, with digital flight controls and engine controls, would be in bad shape all around.

You see, antennas would "let" the EMP inside. So you'd most likely lose your radios regardless. Other systems should be physically separate, so they might survive.

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